Tomorrow night (Monday) Hawks play game #2, pre-season.

[Final_quest]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If we are trading Hunter for pure expiring contracts, what will it cost us? I don't think a capspace team will take him for 'free' 

Who would we target in FAcy? (I haven't looked at the FAs for next season)

Devil is in the details.  This is the first time I’ve heard someone say they think Hunter would require us trading additional assets to move him.  Landry hasn’t found a deal he liked.

Heard next year is a good free agent class, but haven’t looked at it.  

Hunter is so bad we have to attach picks to move him, but so good that we can’t afford to trade him?  Awkward position to be in if that’s what people believe.

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Hunter is so bad we have to attach picks to move him, but so good that we can’t afford to trade him?

I believe the former to be more true than the latter, especially when you account for injury concerns and salary.  Trading him for nothing would probably be good for this squad.  Hunter has everything you want in a big wing except for the impact a big wing should have.  Doubt we'll really feel his absence to be honest.  He's always been way better on paper than on the court

[Final_quest]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I believe the former to be more true than the latter, especially when you account for injury concerns and salary.  Trading him for nothing would probably be good for this squad.  Hunter has everything you want in a big wing except for the impact a big wing should have.  Doubt we'll really feel his absence to be honest.  He's always been way better on paper than on the court

I could see a team with a gap at the 3 trade for him. Maybe after an injury.  Cap is going up.  His contract is getting shorter and more manageable.  

[RedDawg#8]

Since we are speculating, anyone else think that we played so bad in the 2nd half against Philly that maybe there were locker room fireworks at halftime?

Still trying to wrap my mind around a healthy player not coming out after halftime to join his team.

Maybe Dre had been boozing and someone caught wind and told him to go home and sleep it off.

Last leap, but do yall remember his best friend ever on the team was Cam Reddish? Maybe Dre has a broken heart and animosity towards the FO. He also had some friction with Quin early on. Maybe he is just having a hard time fitting in with all the new faces and the love that ZR is getting.

Okay, I am done.

Let’s see if Dre is on the court tonight in Miami.

[JeffS17]

54 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I could see a team with a gap at the 3 trade for him. Maybe after an injury.  Cap is going up.  His contract is getting shorter and more manageable.  

Yeah, potentially.  Cap can go up and there can be less years remaining but no one wants 15% of their cap in street clothes.  Will be interested to see if Hunter plays tonight.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Devil is in the details.  This is the first time I’ve heard someone say they think Hunter would require us trading additional assets to move him.  Landry hasn’t found a deal he liked.

Heard next year is a good free agent class, but haven’t looked at it.  

Hunter is so bad we have to attach picks to move him, but so good that we can’t afford to trade him?  Awkward position to be in if that’s what people believe.

His contract is toxic.  But he is a valuable part of the rotation and this might be the season that decides if you have a franchise player asking out or not so you can't afford to sink this season to get rid of a bad contract.   This isn't like when we dumped JC and had Trae under team control for years.  It does make for an awkward position but it is where we are.  We need to be good enough that Trae is a believer in this team at the end of the season so if you deal Hunter it better not be for nothing unless you are sold on DD and ZR being healthy and high impact so that he isn't missed and they pick up all the minutes like Jeff suggests.

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Since we are speculating, anyone else think that we played so bad in the 2nd half against Philly that maybe there were locker room fireworks at halftime?

Still trying to wrap my mind around a healthy player not coming out after halftime to join his team.

Maybe Dre had been boozing and someone caught wind and told him to go home and sleep it off.

Last leap, but do yall remember his best friend ever on the team was Cam Reddish? Maybe Dre has a broken heart and animosity towards the FO. He also had some friction with Quin early on. Maybe he is just having a hard time fitting in with all the new faces and the love that ZR is getting.

Okay, I am done.

Let’s see if Dre is on the court tonight in Miami.

I'm going to say this and then wait to see if there's any follow up tonight.

If Hunter wasn't getting treatment or dealing with a personal issue, then what exactly was he doing while the team was playing and experimenting with lineups?  You mean to tell me he was just......showering in the locker room and scrolling TikTok?  

We were informed that he wasn't sick or injured, so that's off the table.  There is no other explanation for him being absent from the team, unless there was some kind of personal issue - which could be literally anything, but I suspect is the case nonetheless.

I would say the odds of it being a simple personal matter are the same as, or less likely than, an "it's internal" thing they don't want to comment on.  I don't think we'll hear anything else about it, but I'm sure that Dre will be benched by mid-season...if for nothing but fit/performance.

[sturt]

Among the fun theories, I most like the one that proposed a shart and no other gym shorts available (.... whose was that?).

 

Among the serious theories, I put the most stock in the thought that a trade was teetering on the cusp of completion.

It's the only one that really explains well the whole of the situation without forcing us to think something extreme. Team isn't going to comment on something like that. And it's conceivable that it was just that close.

 

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

But he is a valuable part of the rotation and this might be the season that decides if you have a franchise player asking out or not so you can't afford to sink this season to get rid of a bad contract.

You guys talk about Trae like he's unable to have the same opinions or projections on this teams future as us.  Unless Trae thinks Hunter is some misunderstood all-star, I cannot imagine why trading Hunter to improve the teams future would make him want to sign to play somewhere else in the future instead of Atlanta.

And people here really overvalue Hunter's "archetype" and "role" on this team as indispensable.  If he was as invaluable as we all say, his on/off would look significantly better than it is.  Guys that are truly irreplaceable in terms of fit or position have very positive on/offs because the team doesn't function well with that player on the bench.  The Hawks have never struggled much with Hunter out, pretty sure our record is even better when he's not in the lineup.  And that will be especially true this year with Dyson and Zach on the roster

[kg01]

Dyson guarding Burks is like watching a crocodile fight a kitten. 

[kg01]

Heat broadcast ... subdued. 

[kg01]

Trae sits, opponent goes on run.

This seems ... problematic. 

[AHF]

20 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

You guys talk about Trae like he's unable to have the same opinions or projections on this teams future as us.  Unless Trae thinks Hunter is some misunderstood all-star, I cannot imagine why trading Hunter to improve the teams future would make him want to sign to play somewhere else in the future instead of Atlanta.

And people here really overvalue Hunter's "archetype" and "role" on this team as indispensable.  If he was as invaluable as we all say, his on/off would look significantly better than it is.  Guys that are truly irreplaceable in terms of fit or position have very positive on/offs because the team doesn't function well with that player on the bench.  The Hawks have never struggled much with Hunter out, pretty sure our record is even better when he's not in the lineup.  And that will be especially true this year with Dyson and Zach on the roster

We dump Hunter, Capela and Nance and it opens like $18M in cap space or something?  That isn't an exciting story for your upcoming FA if you are coming off of a bad season caused in part by giving away your rare positive depth for expiring garbage.

Giving away JC did not tangibly improve this team.  It just kept costs down.  If you are coming off a disappointing season cause in part by diminished wing depth, you better have something more compelling than vague notions of improved roster "sometime" in the future.

I am distinguishing between trading Hunter for value and dumping salary.  Unless I'm confused, you are making the case for a dump trade.

[JayBirdHawk]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:54 PM, gurpilo said:

At this point if we could package Capela and Hunter for Ayton and Thybulle we should do it. Same amount money, upgrades the C position and gets similar value at SF with less money and better fit.

Matisse Thybulle will miss about four weeks after knee procedure

Michael Scotto: Portland Trail Blazers swingman Matisse Thybulle is expected to miss 3-4 weeks after having a procedure Thursday to address inflammation in his right knee, team says. pic.x.com/VKxX5wpEcd

 

– via Twitter MikeAScotto

[Final_quest]

On 10/17/2024 at 3:10 PM, AHF said:

We dump Hunter, Capela and Nance and it opens like $18M in cap space or something?  That isn't an exciting story for your upcoming FA if you are coming off of a bad season caused in part by giving away your rare positive depth for expiring garbage.

Giving away JC did not tangibly improve this team.  It just kept costs down.  If you are coming off a disappointing season cause in part by diminished wing depth, you better have something more compelling than vague notions of improved roster "sometime" in the future.

I am distinguishing between trading Hunter for value and dumping salary.  Unless I'm confused, you are making the case for a dump trade.

Do you know our number for next year without Hunter?  I saw $97M on payroll next year if we trade Hunter’s contract for expirings, but that didn’t include our draft picks and any minimum salaries to meet roster criteria.  
Expected cap is $154M.  Not sure Hunter’s play merits keeping us out of the free agent marketplace next year. But I can only do cap estimates.  I could be missing something numbers wise.

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Do you know our number for next year without Hunter?  I saw $97M on payroll next year if we trade Hunter’s contract for expirings, but that didn’t include our draft picks and any minimum salaries to meet roster criteria.  
Expected cap is $154M.  Not sure Hunter’s play merits keeping us out of the free agent marketplace next year. But I can only do cap estimates.  I could be missing something numbers wise.

Wouldn’t that give us roughly $33M for two roster spots with Hunter and $57M for three roster spots without him?

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Do you know our number for next year without Hunter?  I saw $97M on payroll next year if we trade Hunter’s contract for expirings, but that didn’t include our draft picks and any minimum salaries to meet roster criteria.  
Expected cap is $154M.  Not sure Hunter’s play merits keeping us out of the free agent marketplace next year. But I can only do cap estimates.  I could be missing something numbers wise.

 

58 minutes ago, AHF said:

Wouldn’t that give us roughly $33M for two roster spots with Hunter and $57M for three roster spots without him?

Quick look:

We'd have 10 player contracts if we release all FAs and traded Hunter for no return. Add two rookies for ~$8-$10 mil? With our 2 2025 picks. That's 12 players plus one empty roster charge to get to the required 13 players at approximately $120 million (including JJ $13.5 million cap hold). So approximately $34 mil in capspace.

 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Quick look:

We'd have 10 player contracts if we release all FAs and traded Hunter for no return. Add two rookies for ~$8-$10 mil? With our 2 2025 picks. That's 12 players plus one empty roster charge to get to the required 13 players at approximately $120 million (including JJ $13.5 million cap hold). So approximately $34 mil in capspace.

 

 

Thanks, Jay.  I have a hard time seeing us carrying the minimum 13 but that is a useful placeholder.  Also worthy noting is in that situation we have only OO (under contract) and JJ (RFA) at PF and C so there is little question where those dollars need to go.  If you assume that Tony still won’t pay the tax then it gets even more restricted since we all know JJ will cost a lot more than $13.5M.

[JeffS17]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Thanks, Jay.  I have a hard time seeing us carrying the minimum 13 but that is a useful placeholder.  Also worthy noting is in that situation we have only OO (under contract) and JJ (RFA) at PF and C so there is little question where those dollars need to go.  If you assume that Tony still won’t pay the tax then it gets even more restricted since we all know JJ will cost a lot more than $13.5M.

It's not that restricted.  We could sign a $30M free agent up to the cap max (~$155M and still have $40M space to the first apron (~$196M).  Most of that would go to JJ but you’d have an MLE available as well and  a biannual.

 

In short, if we got off Hunter's contract, we have a ton of green space to operate in next offseason.  We'll be in excellent shape from a cap perspective.

[Final_quest]

12 minutes ago, AHF said:

Thanks, Jay.  I have a hard time seeing us carrying the minimum 13 but that is a useful placeholder.  Also worthy noting is in that situation we have only OO (under contract) and JJ (RFA) at PF and C so there is little question where those dollars need to go.  If you assume that Tony still won’t pay the tax then it gets even more restricted since we all know JJ will cost a lot more than $13.5M.

Yes, Jalen will cost much more than $13.5M, but the cap line is $154.6M and luxury tax line is $187.9M.  Whatever Jalen costs above that $13.5M we can easily absorb.  So getting Hunter off the books does open up an actual opportunity to be a big player in free agency. 

The last few years we started over the tax line, the shift could be towards starting $67-68M under the tax line.  Worth consideration over keeping Hunter who barely moves the needle.