QRich, Kobe, Manu or SJax????

[Diesel]

Sjax has stepped up as a 1st option. If we can sign him for 5 years 33 million starting at 5.8 million..

Would you sign him over QRich or Manu?

[Plainview1981]

The question is can he produce this while he's no looking

for a contract to opt out of? I seriousally doubt it. He

does have alot of talent if he isn't launching shots from

the outside all the time.

[ersimo2889]

I don't think Manu would want to leave San Antonio. It seems like he works so well with the players they have there. Also, I don't know about signing Stephen Jackson to a five-year deal. He kind of strikes me as the kind of player who won't play as hard if he gets a long-term contract as if he was out to prove himself, like right now.

[chillzatl]

He's a hungry player. He played hard for the Spurs and he's played hard for us. He's got a lot of skills, as we heard from both coaching staffs. I've heard a lot of good things about Jax from personal sources. I don't think he's playing for a contract. He wants to compete.

You have to remember that this is basically his 3rd season in the league. His rookie year he produced respectable numbers for NJ. Better than you'd expect from a late 2nd rounder. Last season with the spurs was basically his second season. He put up very good numbers for a second year player. a lot of young players start showing their stuff in their third year and I think you're seeing that with him.

I don't know that I'd give him a huge contract. But 4-5mil per wouldn't be bad. He's not the perfect player but he's a guy who is good enough to make you a winner if you get more quality talent around him.

[cyman3]

I rather have KOBE at the MAX than JACKSON at $5.8 million.

but if kobe seems to be out of the question, how about JACKSON at 4-5 million instead?

Spurs offered him 3 years, 10 million... and that was the best offer on the table. how much interest has he drawn from other teams now? is his value the same as last year?

[KB21]

I'd offer Jackson 3 years at $12 million with an option year that could push it to $18 million.

I don't think he will get much more than that on the market. He's young enough that if he proves himself in this deal, he will have the opportunity to cash in after 3 years.

[Boondocks]

Me personally would try and sign Manu and Jamal Crawford, with perhaps Rodney White too.

[Diesel]

I don't see Jax not finishing off higher than 20+ ppg on 46% from the field. Since the break he has averaged 24 ppg 48% shooting. He has no choice but to be that kind of scorer.

His defense is not bad. His offense is good. He's putting up numbers better than QRich or Manu. I think we have been conditioned to believe that our players are not that good.

I mean a 3 year 12 million dollar deal is less than he can get elsewhere. I'm saying we start him off at 5.5 - 5.8. To keep it in perspective.

Newble signed a 3 year ~9 million dollar deal. Newble is not a starter nor does he log in many minutes. He's just a role player.

Christie made 6.5 million this past year. Is Christie 1.0 million dollars better than Jackson?

Catino Mobley made 5.4 million this year. Is Mobley better than Jackson?

I'm just saying that we're talking about all these FA SGs... Well, if we don't get Kobe, we should make consider resigning Jax. And looking for Tmac in 2005.

[swolehawk2]

I remember when you were about to gun me down for saying that SJax is a better player than Dog...now you want to sign him up...but you probably don't remember that though...since DIESEL is always right....LMFAO

[TheDude]

I say we keep him. It's only his third year and he's doing pretty well. If he keeps progressing the next year or so as he plays, he may turn out all-star numbers. But definitely it has to be a reasonable salary AND we need to figure out if he's playing SG or SF so we can plan better for the future.

But keep Sura and one of the 7 footers as a center backup.

CC has been playing lights out but I'm still scared of the injury potential. I'm still waiting before I make a decision on him.

[Diesel]

Well Swole.

I still wouldn't say that Jax is better. I mean, I'm not proposing 10 million in salary for Jax. However, Jax is different. Jax doesn't have a strong midrange game. Jax is more of an outside shooter. Jax is not as good a rebounder as Big Dog. However, Big Dog is not suited for a running team. He's better for a team with a Halfcourt set. Jax is better with a team that runs. That's why Jax works here, big DOg didn't and Big Dog would rule in SA where Jax was benched.

[Boondocks]

Not the best of examples Diesel, there have been trade rumors re: Christie and Mobley but both were considered to be somewhat overpriced.

As for Newble, you would presume they meant to play him more but aren't satisfied with him sofar.

No really I would go after Jamal Crawford, Manu Ginobili in a big big way and go draft size with our picks. I would take a long lok at Rodney White who can play 3 positions (2,3 and 4) and although has gotten irregular minutes with the nuggets if given the chance he produced.

I like Jax, but since he's made it clear he's going to opt out kinda speaks against him being a hawk.

[swolehawk2]

You hate to admit you are just plain wrong. Dog can't rule anywhere anymore because he can't play D...thats why he couldn't stay on the floor when Ayers was coaching and why AI called him out about guarding his man. I said it then and you can see it with your own eyes ...SJax is plain better....and what is scary is I don't think Jax realizes how good he can be...if he didn't settle so much for jump shots.

But is ok ...you can send me a private message and let me know you think Jax is better...it is fine...just between u and me.

[Diesel]

Sorry, but everyone knows that when you get Big Dog, you're getting a player who is a weak defender. Just like when you get Theo, you're getting a weak rebounding C. The point is that you have to make up for that weakness with others on the team. Our problem is we had Grob, JT, and Reef who are all weak defenders. However, I maintain that if Big Dog goes to a team like San Antonio, he'd be comeback player of the year. He's too much of a scoring threat. He'd take too much pressure off Duncan. Even JT was crying about he missed Big Dog when December rolled around.

I won't say Jax is better. I say Jax is different. When you got Jax, you live by the three, you die by the three. What was his shooting percentage last night? When Jax is hitting his shots, he's good, but he's not always hitting his shots. Jax has become accoustomed to jacking up the three. If you're playing an uptempo game like we now play, that's tolerable. However, if you are playing a halfcourt game like SA played and like we used to try to play, Jax coming down, Jacking up a three pointer while our rebounders are not in position is the worst thing in the world. It goes team by team swole.

Now, notice what I said about Jax.

I say that because we are NOW running uptempo basketball, it's good to keep Jax. Plus, Jax would be a cheaper Pickup than say Qrich and right now, we know that Jax fits. Bottom line is that we can sign Jax, hold over some money til 2005 and make a bid at Jason Richardson or Tmac!

[Diesel]

Point out?

There's Brent Barry.

Do you think he's better than Jax. Remember Jax is in his 3rd year.

Bottom line. With guys like Kobe, Ray Allen, Houston, AI, and Spreewell

all making 10+ million a year.

All scoring about 20-29 ppg...

I think it's pretty fair to offer Jax 5.5 Million a year while he's scoring 20-29 ppg.

I mean, at what point do you start to value your own players??

[cyman3]

"I like Jax, but since he's made it clear he's going to opt out kinda speaks against him being a hawk."

- i dont think its personal or anything... the NBA is a business, and he thinks he can get more... either from the hawks or from another team. the dude just wants to get paid for the work he does.

he opt out cuz he was getting paid like crap... like a project sitting on the bench.

[Traceman]

just wants to get paid. And who can blame him? If we pay him fairly relative to other offers he gets, I think we have an EXCELLENT chance to resign him.

[swolehawk2]

Man u r so full of BS it is beyond comprehension...why do you always have to try to spin...if I go to the park and watch pick up games all day I can tell which player is the best basketball player...meaning which players game is more complete....not which one shoots better or which one does this better....it is just obvious to everybody but you that Jax is better all around bball player tha Dog.... period.

If Jax is missing shots then he is getting rebounds...or hustling for loose balls ...or taking charges in transition...if Dog is not hitting shots he goes to the bench...because you really can't afford to have him on the floor if he not shooting well...

Guess what.... the SA teams that won championships played D...Dog doesn't fit there either. Philly went to the finals with tough team D...Dog doesn't fit there either.

Dog is done.. I have a feeling that SJax is just getting started.

Has Dog's game improved any in the last 8 years?....same old Dog get up in his face make him take tough jumpers...because he can't dribble... and he goes 1-5 and leaves the game with a sore elbow....please

[Diesel]

Let me show you consistency.

The day We singed Jax, this is what I said:

Re: Opinions on SJax signing?

      #35677 - 10/03/03 03:35 PM

Quote:

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My opinion is that SJax is better than Nailon. I'm not really sold on SJackson's talent. I think he's one dimensional and won't help with the ball handling, however, having another shooter on the floor with JT is good.

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Later on in relation to Big Dog, this is what I said:

Quote:

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Re: Big Dog Was Not A Great Fit Here But Jax Is NO

      #37342 - 10/31/03 04:25 AM

The Shear Numbers that dog put up...

A career of 20/6.

That's not 1 game. Not 1 season. A whole career. Until he got here he had a career FG% over 45%. You can talk as much as you like... however, the truth is that throughout the history of Basketball, it's hard to find Many SFs that can duplicate those numbers.

I mean, even NOW... It's only 1 or 2 that put up better numbers.

As far as fit.... You are really asking a terrible question..

You say that Dog wasn't a good fit because of his athleticism and his defense.

Well, last time I looked, the only defensive player we have is Theo... They only athletic players we have are Glover and JT...

HOWEVER, I would ask you...

If we had Andre' Miller running the PG, would he have still been a bad fit??

The truth is that I believe that Big Dog was a better fit for us than JT is?

Yes, Diesel just complicated matters with the truth...

Let me explain.

My notion was that Big Dog was brought here to be the compliment to Reef. Reef had experienced double and triple teams all season long 2 years ago because everyone knew that our scoring options were limited. The other night, it was like N.O. pulled out their old Silas playbook on us... Double/Triple Reef, Token pressure on JT as he brings the ball up. They knew if they forced the ball out of JT's hands it would disrupt our offense because JT would fall into the mode of being a scorer and not leading our offense. They knew that if they double Reef, it would disrupt our offense because our offense has NO MOVEMENT. However, with Big Dog on the floor, the game changed. Another player who can score. The Problem was PG management.

Philly has 2 more games without Dog... However, wait until Dog plays. Eric Snow is a good enough PG to manage. Iverson is also a good enough player to take control.

I say that Big Dog is a better fit than JT because look over JT's career as a Hawk...

For 4 years, we have tried to find a Spot for him. SG/PG/SG/ no PG.. Then we have tried to find players to compliment him... Email, Toni, Diaw... Nothing has worked (well, Toni worked momentarily) but coaches have had to dumb down offensive schemes and most of the time it looks like piedmont park Basketball League play. The truth is JT is a bad fit at PG. He can't run the offense. It's unfortunate because he's a good scorer and he's fast. However, none of those 17 points matter if he keeps the team from scoring.

---

Where's the spin. It's the same message. Whereas my thinking was that we would have been better to go after a PG like Miller and Keep Grob/SAR together... Knight took the other route of getting rid of Grob/SAR/Theo and getting an athletic team. The point and truth still remains that I pointed out the difference back in Oct and have not veered from it. If that's spin, I hate to see your definition of consistency.

[swolehawk2]

"Maybe because Jax is a career 9.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg player who is not in Big Dog's league... Yet you believe he's more complete..."

What you didn't realize is that all he needed was more minutes.

We were talking about who was more of a complete player and you said Dog...we were not talking about if he "fit" we were talking about straight up who is the most complete player. It is obvious that Dog can not help a team in all ways Jax can because Jax is the more complete player.

Diesel...complete players play on both ends of the court.