Damn, how overpaid are NBA players

[Admin]

I was just thinking.....consider this.

In the NFL their salary cap is roughly 80 million dollars and they have to fill out a 52 man roster with that 80 mil. So that means that they have on average 1.5 mil or so per player.

In the NBA the salary cap will be about 48 million this year possibly and a team must have 12 players. So that means that on average they have about 4 mil per player to spend.

Doesnt that seem a bit strange? Are basketball players really that much more special that they deserve so much more money on average than football players?

How about in baseball. I think that the average annual cost of all the teams in baseball is probably at about 60 million when you average it out and they have to have what 25 players or something like that? Thats only about 2 mil per player.

I think its crazy that NBA players make as much money as they do, especially when you consider that most of them dont even have college degrees like most NFL and MLB players do.

[Weez]

a) most MLB playes don't have college degrees. Most of them get drafted out of highschool and work their way up the farm system, never going to college (yes, some do, but most dont).

b) Football players get HUGE signing bonuses that aren't really factored into their "salary" numbers. Baseball and basketball players don't get these.

c) I don't know this, but I would wager, that the avg. career length of a baseball player is much lengthier than a basketball player. Football is by far the shortest.

d) Salaries in the NBA are rapidly changing. We're in a transition period right now where you've got some guys grandfathered in on previous LT deals before the current CBA and that's leading to their "allowance" of even more proposterous salaries...like Shaq (thanks KG for taking a cut). Basketball's sorting itself out here.

e) One thing that actually hurts the NFL, but not the NBA, is vet minimums. A lot of times, NFL teams will cut a more vet player because they HAVE to pay him more, instead opting for a perhaps slightly less ready younger/healthier? player who they can pay less...

f) Baseball's dead until they get a cap in place. and I don't mean the Yankee-only cap rule. I mean, this whole season is going to be about rooting against the Yankees/Sox, or for the BSox...and hardly for your own team. Because odds are, they aren't even close to good enough to realistically compete. I mean, it's pretty sad when, under new ownership, the Marlins best player and "heart and soul" of the team, Pudge, walks away from a WS title and goes to Detroit, the laughingstock of the league last year, simply because they'll pay him. Of note - ARod and Jetter together make more than some teams' entire salary. This is fact, not speculation.

I'm not saying BBall's perfect, but it's working itself out right now and I realize that the transition period, where players like Jamison still have max contracts from previous bad ideas, still exists. Once you come out on the other side of that, I think it'll be the best salary structure in pro sports.

[CHORO44]

I think the NBA needs to reduce the length of contracts and go three years guaranteed with a team option for another three years.

My radical plan. The salary cap of 52 million or whatever the figure is divided by the number of games.

82/52 = 1.6 million a game. Two teams play so the game is worth 3.2 million. The winning team gets 60 percent and the losing team 40 percent of the 3.2 million. This equates to 1.92 for the winner and 1.28 for the loser.

Now each contract is worth a percentage of the total team take so for example:

KG - 20%

Spree - 10%

etc...

So if KG's team beat the Hawks then KG would pocket $384k for that game. If he went undefeated for the year he'd pocket 384 * 82 = $31,488,000.

This system puts an emphasis on winning and not contracts since if you lose your whole team takes home less. It would be nice to see each game worth something. This also means you have to trade players that add up to each others percentage.

I don't know this is a rough idea any thoughts?

And yes baseball sucks: I'm an A's fan and what the Yankees are doing is bad for the sport. NFL would be better if the Poston's weren't agents and Snyder had to sell the Redskins.

[CBAreject]

b) Football players get HUGE signing bonuses that aren't really factored into their "salary" numbers. Baseball and basketball players don't get these.

Actually, they are...as far as the salary cap goes. The signing bonus is divided evenly over the length of the contract for cap considerations. Since the NFL cap is what we're using to determine average player salary, we are including signing bonuses.

e) One thing that actually hurts the NFL, but not the NBA, is vet minimums. A lot of times, NFL teams will cut a more vet player because they HAVE to pay him more, instead opting for a perhaps slightly less ready younger/healthier? player who they can pay less...

I agree. I would do away with minimums altogether. Doesn't that ruin a free market for players? That's what unions will do to you. If there were no union, there would be free bidding on undrafted FAs. Some guys would get a chance to play for $60,000 or so, who wouldn't have otherwise.

c) I don't know this, but I would wager, that the avg. career length of a baseball player is much lengthier than a basketball player. Football is by far the shortest.

This is interesting. Obviously, we would guess football is the shortest just because of injuries (I know data supports it, too). I was wondering if it has something to do with the percentage of the roster occupied by non-starters, too.

Think about it. It's much easier to make a team as a reserve. Frequently, reserves come in for just a short time and then don't pan out.

In baseball (longest), there are what I would consider 15 starters (positions, starting pitchers, closer, dh), which is 67% of the roster. In basketball, there are 5 starters, which is about 43% of the roster. In football, there are 22 starters, which is 42% of the roster. Of course, injuries shorten the career length in football, as well.

[Inside_Man]

NBA contracts are guaranteed, NFL are not.

Can you imagine how many YEARS ago Hendu would have been cut if he didn't have a guaranteed contract?

Hoop salaries are a joke.

Q. If you cut salaries in half and cut ticket prices in half, how much would attendance climb in Atl?

[BlackHawkDown]

You know how you felt like you got screwed when you were a Ranger. Well imagine giving your all to some college, for an athletic scholarship( when you could have gotten way more for a academic scholarship). You bust your @ss for 4 years to get to the pros and make just under a mill, if your smart youll end up with rental properties, a couple of bussinesses and win out and turn 500,000 in stocks into $3.5 mill during the dot com bubble. But the truth is most athletes arent that lucky most athletes dont end up going to Grad school or getting a prestigious MBA after there career is over. The truth is alot of friends and associates I have known ended up broke and it is sad because let me tell you. $500,000 or even 2 million can end up as nothing when you pay for agents, family and friends, and believe me any 20 - 26 year old who has never had more than a couple of thousand in the bank will lose his mind, a new car with 22" dub spinners, buying out the bar, Even competing with other players, or rappers, or actors to show that you are bigger than they are. Yeah it great but then there is the 30 - 35 year old man with busted knees and back pains that wishes he had something left. And sadly he was so focused on his atheletic career that he he has nothing in terms of job skills.

Meanwhile some former real estate developer or dot com CEO makes millions off the backs of those thousands of young men. Because every T shirt or baseball cap you buy every game you goto or watch at home He is the beneficiary. And you know what no one is ever going to post that he makes too much, or that it isnt far that he makes billions while the atheletes who are by comparison in age, maturity and experience kids work, get cut and fall into the trap.

Same way troops, 18 - 25 year olds work night and day day in Somalia, Iraq, Panama, Bosnia, to protect the interest of corporations the wealthy and politicians. Oh and plenty will complain vets get too many benefits, which Bush is cutting, The GI bill is doing to much, etc.. and its crap they give their lives whether or not I believe in America or am a patrriot I recognize that vets and troops are getting the shaft, most of whom are just children of poverty trying to make a better life and though the rhetoric is there the politicians dont support them and athletes are int the same boat the children of poverty trying to make something more of their lives and getting screwed by corporate barons and the superrich

[Weez]

BHD, you've been reading out of the Rasheed Wallace handbook to corporate america. I truly hesitated on even touching this post. But, fact is fact, you can "find" injustices anywhere you want to look.

Here's one for you. Take a college graduate, whether he went to college on an athletic scholarship, academic scholarship, or no scholarship, but regardless, graduated in the upper parts of his class. Took some more tests, did well, decided to continue his schooling four more years (none of which is paid for). At this time he has an advanced degree with supposed good job security, though he can only apply to certain fields, somewhat dictated by how well he performed in the second phase of his schooling. Finally, after eight years of post-HS education, he gets his job, and for the next three (min) to eight years of his life, he works approx. 80 hours a week, generally slightly more, occassionally slightly less...for an average salary of approx $1.71/hour.

you know what you call that person? MD. Seems real fair too doesn't it.

Honestly, yeah, the temptations are there to squander the money. And by squander, I do not mean supporting one's family, I mean buying all the cars and whatnot. Why not spend some of that "big livin" time and work on your game/profession and ensure that you'll be in the league, earning a paycheck for years to come...and not just a flash in the pan never worked out shoulda stayed in school and graduated player?

[BlackHawkDown]

Rasheed Wallace is an idiot, he's emotional and immature but aside from his attacks on david stern he has made some valid points. I'm a millionaire so I am not complaining about a damn thing. But the point is that there are desparities in a capitalist system so lets never desparage someone for doing well because there is always someone doing better. So what if athletes make millions there not affecting you other than you might have to pay more for ticket to a football game. But executive pillfering of pensions, which is rampant, executives making poor short sighted business decisions just to temporarily raise shareholder prices, or maybe the exec who decides to close down a textile mill in the carolinas move operations to Vietnam and exploit teen laborers who work 80 hour weeks for $40 or the company that lobbies Congress or State Capitols for tax breaks claiming that it is needed for capital investments but instead makes wide sweeping layoffs, Or the bank that traps college students with high interest Credit Cards or charges higher rates to homeowners in African American communities.The list goes on and these people who through the media control you so well that they have you critcizing 22 year old atheletes who make less than the vast majority of high level executives. Believe me if you add up every pro atheletes salary and compare it to the revenues of Microsoft(just one company) and you will understand who is really controlling the economy.

[Weez]

this became a discussion about the economy...exactly when?

[Admin]

My point was that NBA players are overpaid in relation to the other major sports. I didnt say that athletes are overpaid (even though I firmly believe that).

You can give me a sob story all day long about a poor multi-millionare 20something that has to keep up with the Jones' of the league and it causes him to be a broke 30something with bad knees but I will NEVER feel sorry for them. First off they were blessed by God to have the natural ability to PLAY for a living and make a TON of money doing it. If they are too irresponsible to manage that money then that is their problem, not the man getting rich selling shoes and tshirts because of that player. You mention all those soliders and NONE of them will ever make even close to 1% in their whole military career of what an NBA player makes in a single season and yet they are supposed to support a family on that? The fact that they do it and that most americans are close to that salary range and survive should tell you enough about how overpaid professional athletes are.

Bottom line, just look at Magic Johnson. This is a man who has paid more to agents than all of us together on this site will ever make, plus he has HIV, and is no longer a professional athlete and yet look at what he has done with his life. He invested his money while he was in and now he has all types of businesses in this country and should be the role model for these dumbasses that blow their money on cars and women.

Also, you think that I feel sorry for any athlete that doesnt finish college because he wants to be rich or because he doesnt care enough about an education? Athletes dont even have to study in HS to get into a great college as long as they are athletically gifted.

Anyways, I wasnt attacking athletes with my original post....I was just showing how overpaid they are compared to their counterparts and there really is no valid arguement against that BHD.

[Admin]

Why shouldnt high level executives make more than 20 year old athletes? Those same high level executives have gone to school for at least 6 years, have been working for at least 15 years, and have more responsibilities than any 20 year old athlete could ever imagine. Sure there are lots of criminals in big business that make their money off of other peoples suffering and they are wrong for that.......but this is a basketball website and thats not the place to complain about it.

[cyman3]

i know ur idea was to compare basketball players salaries with other sports... but u mention how bball players, or sports players, are overpaid. i got a thing or two to say about that...

i complete understand everything u say... i really do. it is true, that they are physically gifted and blessed to play the game they love as a career and a high paying career.

but then again, are they overpaid?

i too, dont feel sorry for these athletes... but i also believe that they earn their money. they have a job, they have to go to practice on time, catch team flights, play EVEN WHEN THEY DONT FEEL LIKE IT (not too big of a deal, but somewhat annoying), be away from the family for quite some time, etc. not to mention, they are treated like PROPERTY... being traded left and right, and having no control.

and im sure theres a positive correlation of HOW GOOD U ARE, and HOW WELL U GET PAID (in theory, two variables are supposed to be directly related- however guys like ALAN HENDERSON tends to mess things up).

the way i see it, if THEY (the peop who make up the sport do majority of the work... more work than the GM, president, owner, coach, etc)... shouldnt they be the ones getting PAID? Since the industry attracts so much $$$$, someone has to benefit from it? Theres also no need to "help" the customers and lower prices when they dont have to. So since money is coming in, I rather have the players making the money than someone else... i rather have them get it then STERN! u know?

but then again, i agree with u... there are many dumbass athletes out there who need to manage their money.

[Admin]

Consider this. When you talk about how they have to catch team flights and could be traded any time and have to be away from their families and all that......think about all the soldiers that fight for our country for peanuts, risking their lives and possibly orphaning their children just so we can be amused by these athletes who are greatly overpaid to play a game. I dont have a problem with these guys making good money, they should because to be a successul professional athlete they have to go through a lot to get there and stay there......but they certainly shouldnt be getting paid an average of $50,000 for 48 minutes of work 3-4 times a week. Thats just the average salary of 4 mil per year. When you consider that on average most soldiers dont even make half of that money in an entire year that should tell you how out of whack professional salaries are.

[cyman3]

compared to soliders... 90% of EMPLOYED WORKERS have it easy.

i never intended to compare ATHLETES work to the work soldiers do on a daily basis....

i was just comparing athletes job to another business job.

[Iman]

Funny enough, I think the American pay system is relatively fair for most people, maybe even 99% of the people. Athletes, movie stars, musicians, etc are way out of proportion to the rest of us but if you calculated failed athletes, etc into the equation it's really not that bad. Really where all the money came from was the stars finally getting a nice piece of the money that the owners were making (whether they're record company or sports team owners). The physician pay scale is particularly fair in my mind (I agree resident pay sucks, I wonder why it has to be so bad now that I think about it). The better doctors have a chance to go into higher specialties such as surgery, it takes longer but pays more. I guess I'd say some of your government paid jobs such as teachers are relatively the most outta whack versus their contemporaries in my mind.

Either way, if I had my choice I'd choose to be an overpaid athlete who gets paid to play a game that they enjoy. And I'd choose basketball because I think they are the most overpaid and have the best contract guarantees, etc. Baseball would be a close second but then I'd pick golf or something way ahead of football. Football can be deadly and if you only get partially killed they'll cut you, that sucks.

[chillzatl]

and take it to the off-topic forum if you want to complain about the economic realities of life in America.

[BlackHawkDown]

If dolfan can complain about how much athletes make I can refute the logic of it. his entire subject is off topic so why is my post in particular mentioned. Because you dont agree?

[chillzatl]

to move his post to the around the league forum where it belongs. haha.

[Plainview1981]

The reason these "athletes" get so much is because the public

is stupid enough to overpay for tickets. You can blame it on

the fans.

[Diesel]

It's business.

Supply and demand. People demand it, they supply it. In turn, they should reap some of the monetary gain from what they have supplied. It's kind of hypocritical because nobody ever says..."Boy these Owners are overpaid.."

The Bucks are the least valued team in the NBA.

Kohl bought the Bucks in 1985 for the price of 18 million dollars.

Last year, the Bucks made 74.5 million dollars in income (that's the lowest for the nba).

My point is that The owner pocketed 74.5 million dollars after paying all of his players and paying his expenses. (including Gary Payton).

Therefore is it wrong to want to make money if you are a player??

I look forward to MJ and Shaq becoming owners....

But remember, there are guys like Kohl who got in with 18 million and are making 6 times that amount per year (now). Had it not been for the players, there would be no game to speak of.