What do you think about this

[Diesel]

Woodson is already talking about JT as a SG. Scary. And though he mentions JT in the same breath as Billups, you have to acknowledge that Billups has more instincts and a better basketball IQ..

[Wretch]

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You are correct,it is the ability to control the offense, but in order to do that you also have to be able to control the ball, which is where the ability to handle the ball like a point guard comes in.

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And again, Boris can handle the ball. I've seen him do it. He's not a turnover machine. And he's not a stiff. He doesn't bounce it off his feet or get tagged with extensive amounts of travels or carries. He's fine. I haven't seen a lightning quick crossover or studder step, but that's about the extent of any handling "deficiency" that you are alluding too. If the knock on his game is that he can't handle the ball (or well enough to play point) then that's news to me...

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Who mentioned anything about being flashy with the dribble, or making flashy passes? Mark Price was a pretty good point guard, and he didn't do any of that, but he could handle the ball.

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See. You're totally missing the point here. This is much of what you see out of today's PGs coming into the league. Most are of the scoring PG mold and less of the throwback playmaker. And what you are saying here is exactly my point - just because you can whip the ball around, that doesn't mean that you can be a good PG. Just because you can cross someone over, or dribble in circles around a guy it doesn't either. Michael Jordan had SUPREME handles - remember what he did to Bird during that 61 point game explosion? Though, he was far from a playmaking point guard.

Again, the most important thing about being a point guard is being able to control the offense. Controlling the offense is about FIRST OF ALL knowing where your guys are. You can run the play all day, but if guys aren't in position...or you don't know where they are what are you going to do? That's court vision and awareness my friend. So it doesn't matter what the pressure does to you, if you don't know what's going on...what's the point of you being at the point?

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You are wrong here. Not everyone in the NBA can handle the ball. Sure, they can handle it better than you and I, hell they should because they are professionals, but can they handle it against NBA pressure? Can Diaw handle the ball with Chauncey Billups applying fullcourt pressure? Can he handle the ball, with Jason Kidd providing full court pressure? I don't believe so, but I guess we might find out.

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No, I'm actually right. I didn't say that all NBA players have equal handles - I said they can all handle the ball. Of course, you're not going to have a 7 foot guy shakin' and bakin' at the point and sh#t, but these guys can move with the ball. That's basic. And at anything shorter than 6'8" YOU AIN'T PLAYING IN THE NBA UNLESS YOU CAN HANDLE THE BALL AGAINST PRESSURE.

Boris can bring the ball up and I've seen him do it against the press, against the half-court sets, nothing struck me as deficient.

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Again I disagree. His handles are just as important as his development. You can have all of the instincts in the world, but if you can't penetrate...

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Stop. I have seen Boris penetrate and break down the defense. The problem isn't that he can't. It is because he doesn't. THEY WANT HIM TO PENETRATE. They want him to be aggressive on the offensive end and that's the problem. Boris is TOO "pass first" and he's not going to improve his offense or his playmaking if he doesn't get more aggressive. If he couldn't do it, or the coaches didn't think he could, they wouldn't be wasting time trying to coach him into it.

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or you have to start the offense with 10 seconds left on the shot clock, then I don't want you as my point guard. It's great that he wants to get others involved, but like handles, that is not the only aspect of the game. It's a package deal, and handles are an important part of it.

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Where are you getting this, man? I have seen Boris handle the ball. There was a time when the team looked to him to do just that. Before Sura's arrival, and before his injury, Boris was the guy being used to bring the ball up and stabilize the offense. I remember when he went out and we were all anxious for him to get back in there so we could see more of it.

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Whether he can actually play point is debatable, regardless of what you have to say on it. You question my ability to judge, and I also question yours. As I have proven in my other posts, many other players have run half court sets, but that doesn't make them point guards.

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No really it's not. I've seen him play point and do it (relatively) effictively. What sets him apart from a guy just handling the ball is that he has instincts like a PG and that he is aware of what's going on. I've seen him work the ball and FIND open guys. I've seen him deliver outstanding assists that connect right on the money. I don't know what Boris you've been watching.

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You say handles aren't that important, but what good is all that other stuff, if you are constantly turning the ball over under pressure from other guards. You say the Hawks started playing better when Diaw and Sura started running the offense, which is only partially accurate. As someone else pointed out, it had more to do with Sura than Diaw. I like Diaw, but I would prefer that he plays small forward, and helps a real point guard when needed.

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Handles are important. But just because you have handles, that doesn't make you a point guard...nor is having good handles the most important thing about being a good PG. You are knocking Boris because you feel like he is not enough of a good ball handler to play point. Even if that were the case, what I'm saying is that handles are not as important as court vision, awareness, and LEARNING the game. Boris is learning, but most importantly he demonstrates the ability to run the point.

In the end, this is the biggest point that you are missing. Boris just finished his rookie season.

[Wretch]

Boris is only a 1st year player from Europe who has never really been the point man. He will have to be molded and it will take time for everything that you said to sink in. But he has the makings of a player who can play the point.

I never said that he was special. Though, concerning the basic mechanics of running the point guard position? He's got that and he can do it. I would be less inclined to argue with you here if this was year 3 or 4.

...but Boris is VERY green, and from what I've seen of him, I would throw him at the point during this developmental time to see if he can actually swim. He has shown promise.

[Diesel]

KG has the basic mechanism for running the PG, shouldn't they make him a PG in MINN too?

How many 7'1 PGs have you run across?

[Wretch]

He's a good passer, but he's not a playmaker. He can handle the ball and he can pass out of the double. He can probably run a play too. But his game was developed in and is better suited to the post, where he can use his footwork, agility, speed, and size to score...or his handles and court vision to find the open guy.

KG was the "prototype power forward" for the new generation of NBA ballers not a point guard...and nor does he have PG instincts. Boris does. They gave him a stretch run there before he got injured and he did just fine - especially for a rookie. That's what most of us saw in him.

Nobody here thinks that Boris is the next Magic or LeBron (well maybe a few nuts). Though, most of us (and the guys who drafted him/coached him/played with him) agree that given time Boris can run the point. Whether he can be a superstar doing it is not the point; whether or not he can do that full time is irrelevant because a) we've got JT and (discounting a breakout by Smith, Ivey, or Boris) he'll play the bulk of his minutes there b) if we move JT, then we are likely to get a starting quality PG to put in his place and c) Billy Knight is assembling a team full of jack of all trades that will play multiple positions.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

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And again, Boris can handle the ball. I've seen him do it. He's not a turnover machine. And he's not a stiff. He doesn't bounce it off his feet or get tagged with extensive amounts of travels or carries. He's fine. I haven't seen a lightning quick crossover or studder step, but that's about the extent of any handling "deficiency" that you are alluding too. If the knock on his game is that he can't handle the ball (or well enough to play point) then that's news to me...

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And I say again, Boris can handle the ball well for a small forward, but he doesn't handle it well enough for a point guard.

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Michael Jordan had SUPREME handles - remember what he did to Bird during that 61 point game explosion? Though, he was far from a playmaking point guard.

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But he could have been if he chose to do so. Just like Magic could have been more of a scorer if he chose to do so. Why even mention Jordan in this debate, because we all know that Jordan, Kobe, McGrady, and others can play the point if they truly want. They all have court vision, good handles, and could handle full court pressure, all of which are important to any point guard.

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Again, the most important thing about being a point guard is being able to control the offense. Controlling the offense is about

FIRST OF ALL

knowing where your guys are. You can run the play all day, but if guys aren't in position...or you don't know where they are what are you going to do? That's

court vision and awareness my friend

. So it doesn't matter what the pressure does to you, if you don't know what's going on...what's the point of you being at the point?

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Handling the pressure is just as important as knowing what's going on around you. They go hand in hand in any basketball game, from youth leagues to the NBA.

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No, I'm actually right. I didn't say that all NBA players have equal handles - I said they can all handle the ball. Of course, you're not going to have a 7 foot guy shakin' and bakin' at the point and sh#t, but these guys can move with the ball. That's basic. And at anything shorter than 6'8"

YOU AIN'T PLAYING IN THE NBA UNLESS YOU CAN HANDLE THE BALL AGAINST PRESSURE

.

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Again totally untrue. Everybody can't handle the ball, even those under 6'8". Again they handle pressure better than us, but not all of them need the ball when facing full court pressure. Again we are talking about NBA pressure, not the type of defense you see in your average rec league. I wouldn't want to see Devean George, Reggie Miller, Ira Newble, Dion Glover, or other 6'7 and under guys handling the ball for my team, especially under pressure.

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Boris can bring the ball up and I've seen him do it against the press, against the half-court sets, nothing struck me as deficient.

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Well, since they are not playing right now, I can't point to specific games, but I watched every Hawks game that came on tv this season, and I've seen him struggle in some of the same situations that you claim he didn't.

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Stop. I have seen Boris penetrate and break down the defense. The problem isn't that he can't. It is because he doesn't.

THEY WANT HIM TO PENETRATE

. They want him to be

aggressive

on the offensive end and

that's

the problem. Boris is TOO "pass first" and he's not going to improve his offense or his playmaking if he doesn't get more aggressive. If he couldn't do it, or the coaches didn't think he could, they wouldn't be wasting time trying to coach him into it.

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Penetrating against a small forward is different than doing it against a good defensive point guard, which is what will be guarding him. Diaw doesn't have a low post game, so the opposing coaches wouldn't have any problem letting their pg guard Diaw.

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Where are you getting this, man? I have seen Boris handle the ball. There was a time when the team looked to him to do just that. Before Sura's arrival, and before his injury, Boris was the guy being used to bring the ball up and stabilize the offense. I remember when he went out and we were all anxious for him to get back in there so we could see more of it.

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Yeah, and the majority of the time JT or another ball handler was on the floor with him. You guys are talking about trading JT and letting Diaw or some other unknown (rookie) run the point. In my opinion, which is just as valid as yours, it's a bad idea.

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No really it's not. I've seen him play point and do it (relatively) effictively. What sets him apart from a guy just handling the ball is that he has instincts like a PG and that he is aware of what's going on. I've seen him work the ball and FIND open guys. I've seen him deliver outstanding assists that connect right on the money. I don't know what Boris you've been watching.

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I've been watching the same Boris Diaw that you have been watching, but apparently we look for different things in a point guard. I see a guy that averaged 2.4 assist and 1.7 turnovers per game, which is not very good for a guy that is able to play point, especially one that is playing about 25 minutes per game. I understand Boris was a rookie, but c'mon if this guy was making all these great passes and had such great court vision, where are the assist? He had about 5 games all season where he had more than 5 assist.

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Handles are important. But just because you have handles, that doesn't make you a point guard...nor is having good handles the most important thing about being a good PG. You are knocking Boris because you feel like he is not enough of a good ball handler to play point. Even if that were the case, what I'm saying is that handles are not as important as court vision, awareness, and LEARNING the game. Boris is learning, but most importantly he demonstrates the ability to run the point.

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Yeah, and what I'm saying is handles are just as important as the other aspects that you mention. They all go hand in hand when trying to run a NBA team. And yes you are right, I do not believe Boris has good enough handles to run the point.

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In the end, this is the biggest point that you are missing.

Boris just finished his rookie season

.

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I'm not missing that point at all. For Boris to become a point guard in the NBA he must improve his dribbling. Don't get the wrong idea, I like Boris Diaw even though I believe we should have drafted Josh Howard, but I see him more as a 3 than a point. I like his defense, his ability to handle the ball for his position, and honestly I like his shot (even though he doesn't take it enough).

TROUBLEMAN

[Diesel]

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But his game was developed in and is better suited to the post, where he can use his footwork, agility, speed, and size to score...or his handles and court vision to find the open guy.

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Sounds to me like you're saying because Boris is incomplete as a SF, and he can dribble and pass, that he may be better suited for the PG position. I mean, if you really look at it, KG lacks no tools in the Point world. He could easily be what Pippen was to the Bulls. And I believe he'd do it better. However, as you rightly pointed out, KG is a PF. You mentioned that his skills were more developed in the post and I have to say, NOT really. KG is a face up PF. It gives lots of guys trouble trying to guard him because his game doesn't just rest in the post. He's MVP because he can do it all and I believe he's out of the post much more than he's in it.

My point is this... If Boris could and would hit the midrange shot with 48% accuracy, i don't think you would be saying anything about him being a PG. He would be a Sf with handles.. The question is what's easier? For him to learn to be a scorer or for him to learn to run plays, control tempo, and run the break. Marbury said a PG is something that you're born with. What's easier for Boris.. I don't know. We will see.

[Wretch]

Being a PG is something that is in a particular player or not. After watching Boris play, I think he's got it. It has nothing to do with his offensive game. If he could shoot it, that would be all the better for him. However, it's not just that he likes to pass, that he has good handles, or that he can penetrate. He just plays like a guy who wants to be a distributer. When he's aggressive (rarely) he gets into the lane and he finds the open guy. When he runs a play, he drops passes that connect. I've seen him hit guys spotting up, I've seen him shoot dimes through traffic and I can't count how many times I've been sitting there watching him saying, "damn that was a nice pass." I'm skeptical som'biotch so when I hear people saying things, I start looking for it to see how accurate they are. Well, after studying Boris very closely, I'd say that he can get people involved in the offense and it has much to do with his skillset and how he approaches the game. He could play point.

Although KG has handles, court vision, and can work from the post or from 15...his approach to the game is completely different. He plays like a power forward and could swing between the 3, 4, and 5. At best he could be a point forward. Though, he doesn't move with the ball well enough to be an effective playmaker nor does he look to make the same kind of plays as a PG does.

I don't know why you are so eagar to slap limitations on what Boris can do. He hasn't been a dominant force at the point, nor has he been given extended minutes there...especially since Sura arrived. But sh#t man! He's like 21 years old, with only a rookie season behind him, and he has shown the kind of potential that is worth looking into.

[Diesel]

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don't know why you are so eagar to slap limitations on what Boris can do.

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I'm a throwback basketball kind of fan. I appreciate the positions and what they mean because I watched the game when it was executed to it's best. When i look at Boris, I don't see PG. Strangely enough, I see Larry Bird without the aggressiveness or the mean Streak. Just like Bird, Diaw makes good passes and find the open man. Just like Bird, Diaw has good court vision. However, for Bird, all of those became attributes at the Sf position and mixed with aggressiveness and desire, it became greatness.

You are right that Diaw does lack aggressiveness. However, that doesn't make him a PG.

The true race will be...

Weather Boris can become a PG or weather Boris can be more offensively aggressive.

That more than anything you or I have to say on the matter will determine what Boris shall be.

A long time ago, I said that JT is a SG and that's still true. We see that the PG position is really the only specialized Position that you must either have the tools or you don't. That's the difference between Magic and Penny. It will be the deciding factor for Boris as well.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

Let me say this again, I like Boris Diaw and I'm anxious to see what improvements he has made in his game over the summer. I understand that he was a rookie, and I think he will be a very solid player with a nice long career. We just differ on what we believe he can and cannot do. I'm pretty much done with this debate, which was a good one that didn't bog down with the normal name calling and other nonsense. Heck, I've been wrong before, and will be wrong many times before my life is over, but as of right now I don't see PG in Boris Diaw's future.

TROUBLEMAN

[Wretch]

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And I say again, Boris can handle the ball well for a small forward, but he doesn't handle it well enough for a point guard.

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I don't know what Boris you've been watching, but that isn't the guy that Stotts brought off the bench to stabilize the offense and allow JT to play 2. There was a time last season (HIS ROOKIE SEASON) when Boris was the guy they counted on for ball handling duties...when people started noticing his defense and ability to get others involved right before he had an injury that put him out for a few weeks...and we were all saying how we couldn't wait to see him back out there.

I have no idea why you think Boris can't handle the ball; but I refuse to debate that issue further.

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But he could have been if he chose to do so. Just like Magic could have been more of a scorer if he chose to do so. Why even mention Jordan in this debate, because we all know that Jordan, Kobe, McGrady, and others can play the point if they truly want. They all have court vision, good handles, and could handle full court pressure, all of which are important to any point guard.

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What Michael Jordan were you watching? Jordan was not a distributer. He was a smart player that knew how to abuse a defense and he could run a play or two. But he was far from a PG. He probably could have spent much of his time trying to play point (just as anyone can), but it would have been a complete waste of his time. He was a dominant scorer but not a dominant playmaker. He didn't look to get others involved, he looked to score. He didn't have PG instincts, he had a scorers mentality. Jordan made players around him better, but not because he was a playmaker. He did so in a fashion similar to Karl Malone - a dominant offensive force that knows how to get people involved. They brought in guys who could run the offense (Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, etc.) and even let guys like Pippen and Kukoc play point forward. They did that because Jordan was a dominant scorer and not a playmaker. He was nothing like Magic and neither is Kobe - who is closer to a Jordan Clone.

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Handling the pressure is just as important as knowing what's going on around you. They go hand in hand in any basketball game, from youth leagues to the NBA.

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For the record, Boris has played against pressure and has done just fine. Yes OF COURSE you need to be able to handle the ball. However, that's just basic. That is the basic fundamental of basketball, because you can't just walk around with the ball. It's what the little kids learn to do in camp before they do anything...they dribble with the ball. Boris is an excellent ball handler and can bring it up, run a play, or penetrate. I have seen him do it.

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Again totally untrue. Everybody can't handle the ball, even those under 6'8". Again they handle pressure better than us, but not all of them need the ball when facing full court pressure. Again we are talking about NBA pressure, not the type of defense you see in your average rec league. I wouldn't want to see Devean George, Reggie Miller, Ira Newble, Dion Glover, or other 6'7 and under guys handling the ball for my team, especially under pressure.

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At 6'8" where are you going to be playing an the floor? SF/SG. You can't play either of these positions if you can't dribble...but everybody that you just mentioned can dribble the damn ball. No, they won't be walking it up the court full time, but they have handles...maybe not PG handles, but they can dribble it's freakin' basic man; and should they need to, they can bring it up the court. I've seen those guys do it...it's how you beat the damn press! One guy can't escape all those defenders. And I have seen Glover bring the ball up MANY times, to set the offense so JT could score...and his forte is the ability to get into the lane... Glover can handle the ball

No, they can't run the point but that's not the arguement here. The arguement is that guys Boris' size have had MUCH experience dribbling and handling the ball. The difference is that a guy like Boris moves well enough to be a distributer.

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Well, since they are not playing right now, I can't point to specific games, but I watched every Hawks game that came on tv this season, and I've seen him struggle in some of the same situations that you claim he didn't.

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You probably did see him make a few mistakes. The guy's a damn rookie. But AGAIN, there was a time before Sura's arrival when Boris was THE man with the ball when he came in. He excelled during that timeframe and was being touted as the sleeper in last year's draft. He got injured and you could tell how much the team missed his ball handling.

I have no idea how you've developed this opinion of Boris. It doesn't sound like you've watched him much at all.

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Penetrating against a small forward is different than doing it against a good defensive point guard, which is what will be guarding him. Diaw doesn't have a low post game, so the opposing coaches wouldn't have any problem letting their pg guard Diaw.

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You are talking about a size mismatch, and you put a little 6'3" guy on Boris would take a few dribbles and he'd jump right over him.

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Yeah, and the majority of the time JT or another ball handler was on the floor with him. You guys are talking about trading JT and letting Diaw or some other unknown (rookie) run the point. In my opinion, which is just as valid as yours, it's a bad idea.

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See... Do you know what JT does when there is another ball handler in the game?

...and did I say anything about trading JT? And when I have mentioned it, I ALWAYS make a reference to bringing in a TRUE point guard.

Your opinion is based less in fact, and observation, and more in what you personally feel someone can't do. I have seen Boris play and just like the professionals that coach him and play with him, I feel like he has the tools to play point guard.

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I'm not missing that point at all. For Boris to become a point guard in the NBA he must improve his dribbling.

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You are completely missing the point. To say what you just said is just like saying Kwame Brown must improve his post play to become a better PF. Boris is a rookie and he will improve. But again, his handles are fine. He's got great handles. I just don't know how you've formed this opinion on his ball handling...I'm lost there. Secondly, for him to be an effective playmaker...he must improve his approach to the game as a PG and get MORE aggressive on offense.

I'm done man.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

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I don't know what Boris you've been watching, but that isn't the guy that Stotts brought off the bench to stabilize the offense and allow JT to play 2. There was a time last season (HIS ROOKIE SEASON) when Boris was the guy they counted on for ball handling duties...when people started noticing his defense and ability to get others involved right before he had an injury that put him out for a few weeks...and we were all saying how we couldn't wait to see him back out there.

I have no idea why you think Boris can't handle the ball; but I refuse to debate that issue further.

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The same Boris Diaw that you were watching. The same Hawks team that you were watching, that was ranked near the bottom of the league in turnovers, that had problems scoring points. Again, who said Boris Diaw can't handle the ball? I said he doesn't have point guard handles, which is totally different than being a small forward with good handles.

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What Michael Jordan were you watching? Jordan was not a distributer. He was a smart player that knew how to abuse a defense and he could run a play or two. But he was far from a PG. He probably could have spent much of his time trying to play point (just as anyone can), but it would have been a complete waste of his time. He was a dominant scorer but not a dominant playmaker. He didn't look to get others involved, he looked to score. He didn't have PG instincts, he had a scorers mentality. Jordan made players around him better, but not because he was a playmaker. He did so in a fashion similar to Karl Malone - a dominant offensive force that knows how to get people involved. They brought in guys who could run the offense (Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, etc.) and even let guys like Pippen and Kukoc play point forward. They did that because Jordan was a dominant scorer and not a playmaker. He was nothing like Magic and neither is Kobe - who is closer to a Jordan Clone.

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He was not a distributor because he wasn't asked to be. Michael Jordan, like Magic Johnson, could have played multiple positions on the court. MJ had the court awareness, vision, and handles to play point. Just because he didn't do it, doesn't mean he couldn't do it. We are talking about a guy who once averaged 32 points and 8 assist per game, so don't give me that nonsense that he couldn't have played point if he wanted to. Hell for his career he averaged 5 assist per game.

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For the record, Boris has played against pressure and has done just fine. Yes OF COURSE you need to be able to handle the ball. However, that's just basic. That is the basic fundamental of basketball, because you can't just walk around with the ball. It's what the little kids learn to do in camp before they do anything...

they dribble with the ball

. Boris is an excellent ball handler and can bring it up, run a play, or penetrate. I have seen him do it.

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Dude, don't try to talk to me like I've never played organized basketball in my life. Yes it's basic to be able to dribble the ball, but again the point you seem to be missing is the ability to handle the ball against NBA pressure. Can everyone do it? Hell no. Boris Diaw is an excellent ballhandler for a small forward, not for a point guard, which apparently is something you can't understand. In my previous post, I thought this was a good debate, hell maybe I'm wrong.

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At 6'8" where are you going to be playing an the floor? SF/SG. You can't play either of these positions if you can't dribble...but everybody that you just mentioned can dribble the damn ball. No, they won't be walking it up the court full time, but they have handles...maybe not PG handles, but they can dribble it's freakin' basic man; and should they need to, they can bring it up the court. I've seen those guys do it...it's how you beat the damn press! One guy can't escape all those defenders. And I have seen Glover bring the ball up MANY times, to set the offense so JT could score...and his forte is the ability to get into the lane... Glover can handle the ball

No, they can't run the point but that's not the arguement here. The arguement is that guys Boris' size have had MUCH experience dribbling and handling the ball. The difference is that a guy like Boris moves well enough to be a distributer.

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I'm not talking about damn traps, I'm talking about full court man to man pressure. Of course they can all dribble, hell I can dribble too, but does that mean I can handle full court pressure from the likes of Gary Payton in his prime? Again it's not me who is missing the point, it is you. How many people has Reggie Miller ever beat off the dribble? Those guys that I mentioned are not even good ball handlers at their position.

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You probably did see him make a few mistakes.

The guy's a damn rookie.

But AGAIN, there was a time before Sura's arrival when Boris was THE man with the ball when he came in. He excelled during that timeframe and was being touted as the sleeper in last year's draft. He got injured and you could tell how much the team missed his ball handling.

I have no idea how you've developed this opinion of Boris. It doesn't sound like you've watched him much at all.

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I developed this opinion by watching him play, something that you apparently did with your blinders on. There was a time before Sura's arrival where the Hawks were struggling to score points, and turning the ball over at an alarming rate. Not all Diaw's fault, but he was part of the problem. And again I understand that he was a rookie, but I can see where a player's best fit is, even during their rookie season.

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You are talking about a size mismatch, and you put a little 6'3" guy on Boris would take a few dribbles and he'd jump right over him.

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Really? The same Boris Diaw that you just said was not aggressive enough to take it to the hole? Again, take off the damn blinders.

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See... Do you know what JT does when there is another ball handler in the game?

...and did I say anything about trading JT? And when I have mentioned it, I ALWAYS make a reference to bringing in a TRUE point guard.

Your opinion is based less in fact, and observation, and more in what you personally feel someone can't do. I have seen Boris play and just like the professionals that coach him and play with him, I feel like he has the tools to play point guard.

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First of all, this topic is about trading JT. Why bring in a true point guard when you have a guy that can play it already in Boris Diaw? Reads, like some doubt in your mind too. Oh, and I'm not talking about a backup point, which is something you need with or without JT.

How would I develop an opinion on a player I have never seen play? I can question the amount of Hawks games you have attended or watched, just like you can question mine. Sounds like you are not able to formulate your own opinion on a player, but simply are using the observations of professionals, some of which have been wrong in their lifetimes. Some so called professionals thought that Shaq would never lead a team to a title, just because he had never won one in college or high school. Some professionals thought Joe Smith was worth a #1 pick. Some professionals thought Trajon Langdon was worthy of a 1st round pick. Some professionals though Mateen Cleeves and Mark Macon would be good NBA players. I use my own judgement, and in my opinion Boris is a 3.

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You are completely missing the point. To say what you just said is just like saying Kwame Brown must improve his post play to become a better PF. Boris is a rookie and he will improve. But again, his handles are fine. He's got great handles. I just don't know how you've formed this opinion on his ball handling...I'm lost there. Secondly, for him to be an effective playmaker...he must improve his approach to the game as a PG and get MORE aggressive on offense.

I'm done man.

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His handles are just fine, for a damn small forward. Yeah, many people thought JT would improve as a point guard, and where has that gotten us? If you are lost, apparently I can't lead you out of the mist, so I'm not trying anymore. Hell, we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. What I don't need is some messageboard dude, trying to question my ability to formulate an opinion. Just like I don't know you, you don't know me, so don't come in here questioning how many games I've watched, and what I saw when I watched them. I do know that Boris Diaw didn't have a good turnover to assist ratio, even before Sura joined the team. I do know at this point in his career his handles are not good enough to play point in the NBA, which is something I've stated from the beginning, while you stress they are, which is why I don't understand the Kwame Brown reference. Kwame Brown can only play post positions, so of course his post play has to improve in order to excel at those positions. Boris Diaw on the otherhand can already play the small forward position, all he needs to do is become more aggressive with his shot, but you guys want him to play the point, which I feel he is not adequately prepared to play. Like you, I'm done with this debate, unless of course you come in here with more nonsense questioning how many games I've watched.

TROUBLEMAN

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But I think Bird was more of a scorer too. People that are that good at hitting the shot draw attention and through that, they manage to pick apart the defense. Bird was a good passer, great shooter, and a very smart player...

Boris is not such a great shooter, but he is a good passer. What I see though is when he brings the ball up he's looking to make a play. I've seen him get to the basket quite a few times to know that he could do it more often if he wanted. Through that, he could make things happen too. Lots of guys can penetrate, and lots of guys can make passes...but it is the guy with that mentality that does both and is looking to make a play - not neccessarily to score. I think that's the biggest difference between guys like Bird, Jordan, and even KG and guys who play point.

Ultimately, I don't think Boris will be a true point like Stockton, Kidd, or Magic. I liken him to Doug Christy and LeBron (who is much better suited at the 2) though obviously not on that level. I would rather have Diaw at the point LEARNING rather than further investing time in JT there. And above all, I would rather have a playmaker... An impact PG like Magic or Kidd is always the dream, but a guy like Mark Jackson, Ron Harper, or Bimbo that can just run the hell out of some plays is my preference.

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This is a fine time to revist this thread.