This is a bad bad bad bad team!

[Wretch]

Of course I do not believe that the rest of those guys will become cornerstonres. The thing is, as long as Walker and Harrington are on the court, they will be watching in every sense of the word...waiting for opportunity. Instead of a situation like in Miami, where wade comes in and gets to prove himself...or in Chicago, where guys like Hinrich get to learn how to run an offense (not watch it be ran) night in and night out.

Personally, I think Chill is going to be very good - I think he could be better than complimentary. But having him wait for scraps while AH and AW run things ENSURES that he will keep that complimentary mindset. That's what I'm saying.

I have no problems with Harrington. When you say that Walker is the right player at the right time - I feel that way about Harrington and I too think he could be a cornerstone. See, the thing about Al is he's trying to find his groove just like our young guys. He's just as active in the offense, shooting less from the outside. Walker is not trying to find his groove. He is trying to lead this team and prove to the league (that would include BK) that he is a premiere player in the league. With his game, that doesn't translate into - take a back seat so two rookies can prove their worth. And having BOTH these guys on the floor changes the dynamics of the team's gameplan and takes away from the responsibility of the guys that we drafted to be the future.

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I don't know how BK will handle Walker because I can guarantee that AW puts up an allstar year. The question is do we keep him or do we try to trade him for high value?

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That's the question that I'm answering and the answer to which I'm seeing on the court. Walker was brought in, I think, as building tool - NOT A FOUNDATION (which some of us think he is). He is a more valuable, if not simply a better known, asset than JT who was on his way out. The thinking is either to showcase Walker and deal him by midseason or let him play out the season and use his capspace...which Knight seems to be enamored with.

[Wretch]

Fresh out of Farragut HS in Chicago, the high schooler that ignited a trend started over 40 games for the wolves, averaged nearly 30 mpg, and posted decent rookie numbers. And personalities has little to do with my point. We've got two rookies that need to get comfortable on the court in meaningful situations. As long as Walker is out there dominating the ball, these guys will sit in the back seat. Unlike players like Kobe, Garnett, Wade, and Hinrich who got to learn the game first hand. It's what lottery teams do with lottery picks (and players with high expectations). Even a playoff team like LA found a way to let Kobe get out there.

This isn't so much about letting them be the focus of an NBA team so much as it is about letting them have VALUABLE time and touches ON THE COURT. And Chill is no more ready for the NBA than is Okafor, Gordon, Howard, Deng, or Livingston...

Earning PT is something that applies to rookies on a team, featuring veterans that expect to win. By way of example: LA when they drafted Kobe or Detroit when they took in Darko (or John Sally back in the day). That shouldn't apply to a lottery team. That's like shooting yourself in the foot. You let those guys play, so they can grow and so you can TRULY asses how good they'll be.

The problem is, by assembling the team the way he has, BK has changed the its dynamics to something in between a developmental squad and a team that expects to win. I don't think that will work and the main reason is having Walker out there.

[macdaddy]

I just don't see the logic in the idea that because Walker is on the floor Chill won't see meaningful minutes. Its a long damn season and I'm glad we have some real pros to put out there and help these guys along. Walker is certainly capable of that. But really your concern should be more with coaching than Walker. I want every player to want the ball in their hands. Its up to the coach to see that the offense is run effectively and involves the right players.

[Employee8]

Wretch, Are you absolutely certain that BK is either to trade Walker or just let him go this offseason? I mean....What do we need MORE Capspace for?? We've got plenty even WITH Walker on-Board.

If Walker plays like an Allstar this year and our team is still in the playoff hunt, you better believe that trading Walker would be the farthest thing from BK's mind at that point...And even if we we were out of it, I still say that BK considers Walker more as "part of the solution" than the problem, so to speak...

Just my opinion, though...

[Diesel]

I think you have to realize that Chills and Diaw will see time. I think that there will be a rotation at the 2 and the three. Harrington will come off the floor, Diaw will go on it. Chillz may very well be the starter at the SG position. I'm not so worried about development time for them. J-Smith is another story. He may have to pull a Jermaine Oneal and develop from behind the scenes... The same happened to Zach Randolph. I do believe that if he has the talent, getting the playing time will take care of itself.

[Wretch]

We’re in a close game with a team. They want to win, we want to win. They have their starters on the floor and their best defenders on Antoine Walker and Al Harrington. We got the ball. Even if the play is called for Childress, it is AH and AW that the defense is going to focus on.

Same game, shot clock winding down, 10 seconds left, critical possession, the play has broken down and Chill has the ball. What’s going to happen? Is he going to take it into the lane, learn how to challenge key defensive situations or is Walker going to call for the ball? Will Chill even try to finish the play? With the shot clock winding down, can Chill even his hands on the ball? A loose ball? A rebound? That's the thing. Firstly, walker is going to be all over the place, secondly, Harrington will be right there in his shadow trying to assert himself.

Down by 5 with 10 seconds to play, does Chill get the green light to shoot, with that nasty form, over a proven shooter like Walker or even Barry? If we're trying to win, guess who's getting the nod...

Now, say there’s 5 minutes left in the same game. We’re down by 7. It’s a key game for the team we’re playing…hell, maybe even for us. Does Walker, Harrington come out for Smith?

Does it really matter that Josh Smith dunks over Detroit’s reserves, with 15 minutes left in the game and we’re down by 17? Playing garbage time is not much different from summer leagues – it’s the same level of competition. If Smith is not playing garbage time, then when is he going to get his looks on the court? Walker and Harrington are workhorses…they’ll go the distance. Will Smith get in there?

There is a theme here. Look for it all season long. It is a team that will play off of Harrington and Walker. In our best wins, worst losses, or closest shaves...they will be the ones with the responsibility. For Harrington, this is something new. He'll learn from it and he's going to learn to play with these guys. Walker went through this 6 years ago. And yes, he's going to show the young guys something. He's going to show them how to watch him play ball.

And at the end of the season, when Walker and Harrington have each taken over 1500 shots, equivalent to 90% of the shots taken by JT, Reef, and Dog in 2003, what will be the value of Smith’s 250 shots in garbage time?

In Chill's case, it isn't so much as his minutes...it is the value of the touches that he gets while he's on the floor. It's the quality of the defense that is not trying to shut down him but focusing on Antoine Walker and Al Harrington. It's the staring at the superstar syndrome. It is the tendacy for players to step back and watch the stars go to work.

For as long as that is our forward combo, so will be the rotation and the focus of our offense. If Walker is not going to be here past the season, then the Hawks are nothing more than his personal stage.

[Wretch]

Walker and Harrington could grow to be a formidable combo. They COULD be the cornerstones of this franchise and we could be looking at building around them. However, at best BK is taking a wait and see attitude towards them - Walker in particular with is contract situation.

We have plenty of capspace with Walker on board...about 10 million or so. Maybe enough to sign another max player outright. I'm not so sure about that after the season if we resign Walker and give him a raise - which he'll probably ask for. They say we'll have around 20 million at the end of the season, resigning Walker will take up the majority of that...unless he takes a paycut.

I realize that Walker will help us compete. But if a good deal comes our way, in the offseason or before, he'll be dealt.

[Wretch]

But it isn't so much the time they spend on the court, so much as it is what they are responsible for when they are out there. On a playoff team, that responsibility is huge and likely too much for them (unless they are KG or Kobe-like) For a lottery team, the scope of that responsibility and expectations are limited to learning the game.

With Harrington and Walker out there, we have a VERY capable veteran combo at forward. It makes us a playoff-like team, especially in the East, but are we really? And what will be the worth of that belief and the value of our young guys' PT if we don't make it?

[OGRat]

What am I talking about:

KG did not start 82 games as you would suggest Chill and Smooth should. KG had a chance to adjust to the NBA and after showing he was ready he was given the chance to start.

I thought we were talking about Walker's dominant personality/game being a hindrance to the rookies stepping up. Again, if they are going to step up, they can do it just as Paul Pierce did in Boston. Ballers will ball no matter who's on the court. If they can't do it with Walker, then you have to think twice about our building blocks.

Chill is playing just as much as the rooks you mentioned. His performance thus far may suggest that he is not ready for all of the time he is getting. Unless he gets his offense going, he may not get as much time when the season begins. Playing time should not be like trick or treat candy given out because its the season- let them earn their time. They will be better for it down the road.

I agree that they should get valuable time on the court, as much as they can handle. The thing is that right now they can't handle a lot of time. Too much PT could be just as detrimental as too little depending on the player. 10 minutes on the court is valuable time if you can show something during that time which suggests that you can handle more time.

Some kids get thrown into the deep water to force them to swim, but it does not take long to see if they can keep their heads above the water.

If we had a player who was obviously ready for more playing time, that would be one thing. But I do not see any of the rooks ready to step in and play a major role yet. I've only seen one game and read boxscores, so I could be wrong.

[Diesel]

In all actuality...

Nobody is expecting us to do anything. We are rated down with Charlotte. So, I don't think that the expectations are that high. Morever, when we start to win games, they will be a part of that winning.

You make it sound like Walker and Harrington will go out there and win and there will be no contribution from the young guns, but there will be a lot of expectations placed on them..... ON the contrary...

I think that that they will have a hand in our success. They won't be ready to make huge contributions, but they will know what they are supposed to do and will get better doing it.

I liken their role to that played by Tayshun Prince in his rookie year. In his rookie year, he didn't play for some time and was able to prove himself late in the season. There were no expectations put on him at all, he just went out and learned and earned his keep. I especially see that in J-Smooth. He will have to earn whatever playing time he gets. Chills will be given playing time. I don't think it will be a big burden to him because:

1. He's not the lead scorer.

2. He's just a rookie.

3. He has a very good vet playing BU.

[Wretch]

I never suggested either start, or start 82 games. KG as a rookie started over 40 games. There was no power forward brought in to start ahead of him. He was a lottery pick that the team invested their future in and he was given the opportunity to prove himself.

We are talking about the way Walker plays ball. He is a very active player. He's a very good scorer. He shoots the ball 1500+ times in a season (1700+ before Pierce came into his own). His game alone will force the guys around him to watch - but he also has Harrington out there with him. With these two guys being the focus of our offense, Chill will be relegated to playing off of them as opposed to a guy like (I'm tired of running this list) who gets out there and finds his own worth.

Yes, a good baller will rise no matter what. But it will take that much longer with them sitting in the back seat.

Chill is getting a decent amount of minutes, but it should comfort you to know that thus far that Walker, Harrington, Collier, Willis, Anderson, Barry, and Drobnjak have all taken just as many if not more shots than him.

Too much PT on a playoff team is detrimental. The team is trying to win and there is no room for mistakes. Too much playing time was not too much for the 3 J's in Dallas. They went on to have decent careers. It wasn't too much for Wade, he led Miami to and deep into the playoffs. It wasn't too much for KG, after 1 season he forced management to build around him.

Those players that do not learn the game are not hindered because they get too much PT. They simply cannot rise to the challenge. Some players learn the game at a different pace.

By putting the responsibility into Walker's hands, we are forcing our young guys to the slower pace - regardless of whether or not they are capable of more.

[Wretch]

That doesn't mean that Woodson's, Walker's, or Harrington's aren't as well. Woodson will design the offense for those two, they will play every game to win, and the rookies will be brought along slowly to help out. If it goes beyond this season, then they will remain in that role unless somehow they force themselves into the scheme of things. Chill MIGHT have a chance to do that, but Smith will have a VERY hard time just getting on the court.

Again, we have built ourselves (on paper) into something in between a developmental team and a winning team. I think we should be one or the other. If we're a winning team, then the kids sit in the back until they they are ready to get their liscense. If we are a rebuilding team, then they get on the floor and they play.

It's what lottery teams do.

[Employee8]

Damn, Wretch...

Do you want Walker on this team or don't you? I'm getting some weird vibes coming from your direction...

[Wretch]

He's not my kind of PF, but I can't deny what he brings to the table. If it were just Walker or just Harrington, I probably wouldn't make a big deal out of it. I think that's a situation where a guy like Walker realizes he needs help and somebody has to step up their game. That's the situation that Wade was thrust into in Miami. It just so happened that he was good enough to become the center of attention.

In our situation, you've got Walker who is going to lead the team and Harrington, with years of experience over all our rookies, who probably wants the same honor. You've got the star and his compliment. I think if Chill (or any player for that matter) is good enough, he will fight through it. However, with Chill's tendacy and personality, I think he'll just be looking to do what he can. Personally, I'd rather thrust him into that #2 role and see what he's got. Maybe not right away, but by midseason...sure. However, as long as we've got AH and AW tag teaming it, then it won't happen like that.

Smith is a whole other story. This cat isn't going to get on the floor. As a reserve, yes...but in meaningful minutes? That's questionable. And if he gets out there and looks like the rookie he is...? He won't be spelling much time at the forward spot. I think Diaw will get that nod, maybe even Chill with Barry coming in at the 2. If Crawford hadn't gone down, it would have been even worse.

My whole point is that we just need to take our lumps like every other lottery team. If your players are good enough, and not lazy, then you can get guys (one way or another) to come in and play around them - check Minnesota, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix... For a playoff team, it's about getting a good pick and giving him his time when he earns it (that's what Devin Harris will be doing in Dallas). For a lottery team, it's all about making smart picks, putting them on the floor, and making them the center of attention.

[Diesel]

Actually,

we have to put the picture out there that we can win. We will have 20 million dollars to spend this offseason. Do we resign Walker? Maybe.. That's still about 10 million left to spend on incoming free agents. IN order to attract somebody, they have to believe that we are more than just a filler team.

About J-Smith, I think he will get playing time and in the time he gets, he will have to prove himself. The days are over whereby a rookie is just given the starting position and played through until he gets it. In these days, if you are not drafted as the man (Lebron, Carmello), you have to go out on the court and prove yourself (Hinrich, Wade, Karman).

I think that J-Smooth has a lot of potential, but just like most of the guys he came in with, it will be up to him to prove that he belongs on the court. IF he does, we probably won't resign Walker.

[Wretch]

But if we end up sucking eggs, it won't matter how hard the guys played. FA's see a losing team as a losing team unless there is someone already there that they believe they can team with to make it into a contender. With Walker and Harrington, we might have that...but again, bringing in another high-dollar veteran pushes the young guys even further down the totem pole.

Having all that talent wouldn't be a bad thing though, but I'd hate to be in a situation like Portland where they had no room for Jermaine Oneal and shipped him off to Indiana. Now look at him... Suppose we're winning, but Smooth isn't gettin' PT and isn't happy...and we need that one piece at C or PG. And we trade him... Then within 2 seasons he becomes Nique-like, bustin' 30ppg meanwhile, we're scrambling to keep a competitive team together.

I'd rather groom our prospects to see what they've got.

I don't think the days are over for starting talented rookies. I think it merely depends on the situation. If you're a GS, LAC, WAS, or CHI...then you play those guys. The draft is your future and it ain't like you got something else better to put on the floor. In a case like Detroit with Darko or Dallas with Devin Harris, you've got to prove that you can help that elite team of veterans.

What are we? Neither...something in between? We're not like the Clippers, Bulls, or Suns who put those guys out there...and we certainly aren't primed to win anything. I'm not sure these guys can get it together within one season, nor am I sure that Walker will just up and resign with us...does he even WANT to wait for this franchise to rebuild itself? He's been through that.

I think in order to make us one type of team or the other, we need to either deal Walker, hope that one of our young guys can rise to star status, or bring in another high profile FA talent.

The easiest thing to do would be deal Walker, and I think BK will do just that.

[Diesel]

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Having all that talent wouldn't be a bad thing though, but I'd hate to be in a situation like Portland where they had no room for Jermaine Oneal and shipped him off to Indiana. Now look at him... Suppose we're winning, but Smooth isn't gettin' PT and isn't happy...and we need that one piece at C or PG. And we trade him... Then within 2 seasons he becomes Nique-like, bustin' 30ppg meanwhile, we're scrambling to keep a competitive team together.

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First off, you have to look at who we will bring in. You say we bring in another top money free agent and it will push the young guys down even farther.

I say NO.

I say no because we are looking for C, PG first. Unless you're talking about Drobs above, I don't think that it's a problem. With Playing time, there's always the possibility that J-Smith will become unhappy. Like I said, he has to prove that he belongs. But it's in no way shape or form like PTL. It would take Walker earning a contract. And if Walker earns a contract from BK, then do you blame him for keeping AW?

I think that's the root of your problem. You don't like AW. My thought on AW is that if he earns the contract, then give it to him and let's build from that. If we lose out on a prospect in J-Smooth, so be it... But either way with or without Walker, it will take J-Smooth 2 or more years to get to the level that you speak of. It might be that we can keep AW and when time to reup Smith (4 yrs) come around, we reup him and trade Walker for somebody who is young and valuable. However, I don't think it's smart to not have AW...or to bench AW... For what?

AW is what he is... a transitional player who can either earn a contract or not. Either way, I don't think he will have much of an effect on what we will do with J-Smooth 4 yrs from now.

If J-Smooth is a player, he will come out... Zach Randolph Style. And we will make room for his game... Zach Randolph Style.

[OGRat]

Zach's a good reference. I'd also include Arenas. He came in and said that the PG would be his and he made it so. That's the type of player we need to build around, not some pansy comfortable with a diminished role. Let them step up and demand their playing time with their performance.

If they can't do it with AW and AH, they can't do it without them.

[Employee8]

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does he even WANT to wait for this franchise to rebuild itself?

He's been through that.

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Does he want to be traded AGAIN?? He's been through THAT!

He wants to stay for 2 reasons :

1.) He can get Good Money here.

2.) He has the GREEN LIGHT to shoot and well...just be Himself.

Elsewhere, he'd only get 1 of the 2.

[Wretch]

But I wouldn't build a team around him. He's a good scorer, but he's not my kinf of PF. So, you're partially right about that.

Bringing in a top quality PG wouldn't be so bad, because he's going to get everyone involved. But bringing in a high dollar center would. You'd have Walker leading the team, this guy or AH being #2 option, and so on to the #3 spot. As we add yet ANOTHER post player, you'll have 90% of our offense (or more) spread across these three guys; and with Walker's penchant for the outside, shots are also going to be taken away from the two spot. If we keep Walker, it means we are going for W's and building around HIM.

Losing out on Smooth means exactly what I'm saying here. We are willing to go with the veteran guys, the established players, and we are not building through the draft or entrusting the future to the guys we plucked from there - especially if we're bringing in another high profile talent to couple with AH and AW. Knowing how BK likes to build through the draft, I'd say he's going to trade AW regardless.

If both Walker and Harrington stay, its going to be that much tougher for Smith to get PT in. We keep saying that these guys need to earn PT, but again, that's only relevant to PLAYOFF TEAMS. Think about it...

What sense does it make for a lottery team, who's wins or losses are pretty much meaningless, to draft a guy, whom they wholly expect to become the future of the franchise...or at least EVALUATE and see if he can become that player...what sense does it make for them to bench this guy? None at all. That only makes sense if you have a winning team.

We have assembled something in between and that is going to cause problems until they decide that they are going in one direction or the other. I'm not talking about benching AW or make him defer to the young guys...you can't. I've already said that. So the focus of the team becomes what he and AH can do with a supporting cast. If we keep him beyond the season, it means we're building around him and the more veteran talent you put around him, the less significant our draft choices become.

I don't think that's BK's gameplan. Unless we put together a strong 1st half, I think AW is gone.