Toine wants OUT???

[Employee8]

I got this from another messageboard :

Apparently, Toine wants out of Atlanta

Per Peter Vescey on NBA TV last night.

He also said he thinks they'll deal him.

Keep in mind that this was announced on the 8th of the month before the victory over the Pistons so perhaps Walker changed his mind??

Damn....Of course let's not forget that Peter Vecsey is as reliable as Pete Babcock so....

[Wretch]

It might just be the best thing for both parties. If it takes us 4 or 5 years to completely rebuild, 'Toine would be well into his 30's. He spent a good portion of his career building up the C's and he basically wasted last season. So, he's at a point in his career where winning is most important and I can't say that I would blame him for wanting to be a part of a winning team.

In our case, it frees up a slot in the rotation. Harrington goes to the 4 and it opens up PT for Chill and Smooth at the 2 and 3. Which I thought was the best thing for this team to do at the beginning of the season. Yet, at the same time...I have really grown to like AW. I really wish we were further along in our development.

Regardless, I'd probably try to sign him to an extension. We could always deal him later. As far as the actual deal itself goes, AW's stock should be pretty high. He's worth every penny of the money he's making. Walker may not have what it takes to carry a team, but play him next to a player like McGrady, Pierce, or Garnett and that's a serious team.

If we do deal Walker, it will be a blockbuster trade and we'll get something much more valuable than a mid 1st rounder out of it.

[Dakin]

As much as I like Walker, I don't see the Hawks getting more than a mid first rounder,and/or maybe a young project type player. He's a free agent plus I would think that anyone interested will be contending for the playoffs, therefore most likely lacking a lottery pick.Not to mention the Hawks probobaly won't have a lot of leverege if Walker is saying he wants to leave. I'd be happy to get a mid first rounder in lieu of watching Walker walk after the year. If the Hawks can get more, great, but don't expect it.

[CBAreject]

The Sixers need to do something this year. With Toine they would make the playoffs. Also, they have some pieces and a pretty decent pick to deal to us, right?

I'm thinking Samuel Dalembert. They can put Marc Jackson in his slot, who is revitalized. I'd also be interested in Iguodala.

[Wretch]

Vince Carter's name is floating around. Jason Kidd's name is floating around. Eddy Curry's name is floating around. Jason Williams, Stromile Swift...you never know who's going where and what people are willing to give up for them.

Not only that, but deals often involve MORE THAN TWO TEAMS for the very reason you stated. Obviously we want high draft picks, but Walker's best fit would be with a winning team. So maybe a winning team gives up a player for a player (like Walker) who is a better fit, the player they give up goes to the team that'll have a decent lottery pick (plus they get a player we don't really need), and the pick in turn comes to us.

Regardless, Toine is too much of an asset to be bullied into a take-it-or-leave-it deadline trade. I would just as soon keep him and extend him. And that's really the key. As much as teams may want AW or vice versa - few of the teams he's willing to play for can offer him any significant amount of money meaning:

A) He stays with us for lots of money

B) He goes to another struggling club with lots of money

C) He takes a 9+ million dollar pay cut to sign with a contender

or

D) We work out a SNT.

Either way we have the best angle on a DAMN GOOD power forward. Honestly, I wouldn't be adverse to keeping him for the money he wants.

[Employee8]

Ahh but Wretch, here is the issue :

If Walker had confided that he wants out prior to the uplifting victory over the Pistons(which is apparent), then perhaps now he has begun to change his mind a bit, thus seeing how the rooks are indeed improving and how the team is overall playing much more COMPETITIVE.

In fact, I'll bet that when he said what he said, it was during a stretch where we were so disorganized and not playing together, that he was ready to erupt like a Volcano out of frustration, which probably led to his comments.

Another thing to consider is the SOURCE of this so-called "rumor" : Peter Vecsey. I don't think I need to elaborate anymore at this point.

[Dakin]

Ha. If the Sixers give up Igudola for Walker, they better win the championship or the Sixers fans might burn down the GM's house. Most fans aren't crazy about giving up their future to rent a player who was burried on the Mav's bench last year.

[Wretch]

That would help facilitate the sign and trade. Walker gets signed to an extension, and out goes the liability.

As for him sitting on the bench for Dallas last year...?

Consider that no one would touch Grant Hill with a 210 foot pole for the past couple of years (I was in favor of many a trade scenario for him BTW). Ben Wallace was a throw in to Detroit. Marco Jaric (another player that I have liked for a long time...specifically since watching him during the All-Star game playing w/Magic against JT and Nique) has been a nobody in Clipperland for a LONG time.

And who the f#ck is AK47...?

The point of all this is that different environments and different teams make different players do different things. One year it turns the Gary Payton into a nobody lost in Laker land, the next, it turns a woeful Seattle team into one of the most dominant forces in the Western Conference.

Antoine Walker has been the same solid player since he came into the league. I never understood the Boston deal, but I know that Toine just didn't fit in Dallas.

But he is what he is.

A legitimate scoring threat, a bona fide 20/10 guy, a passer, and a goto guy. He might not be able to LeBron James or Michael Jordan a team into greatness...but you put somebody like that next to him and he makes a team THAT MUCH better.

We'll get good offers for him, or we'll resign him to good money, or we'll let him walk for less.

[Diesel]

I think you got to realistically look at that choice.

First, if we were to trade Toine, it wouldn't be to a winning team, it would be to a team that is on the verge and has the players to give up and are willing to shed a Pick or a star.

Four teams comes to mind...

Philly...

If it's Philly, I want either Grob/Dalembert/1st or Grob/Dalembert/Iguodala.

Toronto...

If it's toronto, we give up Toine/1st(2007) for Vince/Filler. That simply because of the whole publicity that Vince could bring. He's a owners dream because we'd be good enough to win some games, but every game would be sold out. Unfortunately, his wussy ways kind of make me think.. NO. He's out on the IL now right?

New York.....

Isiah really wanted Toine. Now, he has a whole lot of players, but only three of them getting the job done... Marbury, Crawford, Nazr... What would it take:

I say probably Kurt Thomas/1st/Filler. I would see if Kurt Thomas could be sent to Dallas for Josh Howard/Filler.

Golden State....

This is the most interesting of all. GS is in a position where they have good players, but not enough. I would send toine for Dale Davis/Jason Richardson..... Wow that's a great trade...

Back to NY/Dallas...

Toine to NY.

Thomas/Norris to Dallas

Hendu/Howard/1st(NY) to Atlanta....

I like this deal....

Ivey/Chillz/Howard/Smoove/Brown....

How does that sound after Harrington to Washington for Kwame...

Atlanta trades: PF Antoine Walker (22.1 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 3.5 apg in 41.4 minutes)

Atlanta receives: PF Alan Henderson (3.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.4 minutes)

SF Josh Howard (11.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 35.4 minutes)

PF Jerome Williams (4.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 14.4 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -3.4 ppg, +5.7 rpg, and -1.4 apg.

Dallas trades: PF Alan Henderson (3.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.4 minutes)

SF Josh Howard (11.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 35.4 minutes)

Dallas receives: C Kurt Thomas (11.7 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 1.5 apg in 35.5 minutes)

PG Moochie Norris (1.4 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 9.8 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -1.5 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and +0.7 apg.

New York trades: PF Jerome Williams (4.1 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 14.4 minutes)

C Kurt Thomas (11.7 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 1.5 apg in 35.5 minutes)

PG Moochie Norris (1.4 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 9.8 minutes)

New York receives: PF Antoine Walker (22.1 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 3.5 apg in 41.4 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +4.9 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and +0.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

[Traceman]

Dalembert MIGHT be the answer at 5 but he might be a 3rd stringer on a bad team as he has been in Philly this year. Iguodala has a chance to be good but with Chill, Smoove, Harrington and Diaw around, he's just another young guy with potential. I'd rather try to resign (or extend) Walker at a salary we can afford.

No way in heck would I do the NY deal. Josh Howard is a decent player but he's no AW and the 1st we'd get is not enough to offset the difference.

As for GS, I'd rather have Toine han Richardson for the same money. Richardson is a decent player but If I could resign Toine for a deal similar to the one he signed, give me Toine all day.

As I said, I would do the deal for VC and hope like heck that VC can stay healthy.

I like the way Toine has played here and I think he could be a significant part of the puzzle. He already has an old school game so I don't think him getting a little older will affect his productivity that much. It's not like he has ever been a high-flyer. I'd like to see us try to keep our current core together, go after a young big man like Kwame, Chandler or Curry as a FA and try to address the PG position via draft.

[Sage11]

I would not at all be surprised. BK needs to work some more magic to get the best deal for him.

[chillzatl]

I can't believe anyone would even be surprised to read that. I think he wanted out the day after he was traded. We are not a good team, we are not going to be a good team soon and he isn't the guy to make us a good team. He is a good piece of the puzzle. But that's about it.

He and Harrington are the only real tradable assets we have. The difference between them is that Al is younger and has real upside. Antoine has zero upside. WYSIWYG. It's a no brainer that he will be traded for younger talent and/or picks.

[Employee8]

Quote:

---

I can't believe anyone would even be surprised to read that. I think he wanted out the day after he was traded. We are not a good team, we are not going to be a good team soon and he isn't the guy to make us a good team. He is a good piece of the puzzle. But that's about it.

He and Harrington are the only real tradable assets we have. The difference between them is that Al is younger and has real upside. Antoine has zero upside. WYSIWYG. It's a no brainer that he will be traded for younger talent and/or picks.

---

It's not a No-Brainer as you said 'cause if we can't land BOTH a Solid PG(who isn't washed up) and Solid Big man for him, then I see Toine remaining with the team for the rest of his career. Remember....the team HAS Cap room and can afford to give Walker a nice big contract. MONEY TALKS, My friend!

I think Walker prefers NOT to be traded like he is some hot-potato bounced around the league going from team-to-team....He wants long-term *FINANCIAL SECURITY* and what I call *GEOGRAPHIC STABILITY*; and Atlanta(and nobody else) can offer that to him.

[Dakin]

Check the thread title, guys. Walker wants out. If you can't keep him and his trade value is low, get a mid 1st round pick and be happy. That's what we did last year and we have josh smith to show for it. I'd rather have josh smith than Dalembert who can't even start for the sixers or some 3rd string point gaurd anyway.

And Iguduola isn't happening unles stheir GM is a moron. They aren't going anywhere with or without walker.

[Diesel]

I understand the thought of keeping Toine, in fact, I believe that toine brings more to the table than Harrington and probably always will...

BUT....

1. Moneywise to keep Toine will be expensive.

2. It's going to be hard to develop players with Toine here.

The bottom line is I want to know if Toine would be willing to see development through while taking a salary cut. We can't afford to extend Toine. If we did, we'd never be able to trade him and his salary would kill our chances in the free market.

I suggest a 5 yr 55 million dollar deal.

If he doesn't like the sound of that deal, I would make a trade.

I like the NY/Dallas trade.

Getting Josh Howard/Jerome Williams/1st is not a bad deal. It gives us a centerpiece of: Chillz/Howard/Smith at the 2/3/4 position. As good as NY would be with Toine, they would not be better than most of the Western teams so we'd still have a midround first. Like I have said before, this is not the Babcock years. We have been pretty good at spotting talent.

The second reason I would look to move Toine and Harrington is because neither of them are defensive players. Toine is easily replaced in the offseason by Swift. Not that Swift can do the things that Toine does offensively, but Swift will bring that level of defense up.

Just a projection of what we can have by the start of next season:

Paul/Ivey

Chillz/Diaw/D. Smith

Howard/J-Smith (It could be J-Smith/Howard)

Swift/JYD/D. Lee

Brown/Drobs/Perovic

This is a team that can grow together with a high upside because they are defensive.

[Traceman]

for Toine. That is basically the same deal Sheed got from DET. If Toine can get more elsewhere and he wants to take it, fine. Actually, I think our chances of landing Toine to such a deal are very realistic.

We don't have to feel pressure to trade Toine before the deadline even if he hasn't agreed to an extension. If wen't make a deal with him, we can just use that capspace we'll have to make an offer to one of the other FAs out there or we can use the space to broker deals for other teams and gather picks in the process.

If a deal we like comes along, obviously we should go ahead and pull the trigger. I don't like the NY deal at all because we would have to take JYD at 2 more years at over $6M per season. Heck, we would have had a VERY realistic shot at Swift THIS year if we had offered him $6.5M a season to start. Why pay JYD $6M when you could get a player in Swift's class for $6.5M to $7M a season? Would you trade JYD/Collier for Swift? JYD/Collier make a combined $7.5M a season. No way would I tie up $6M a season for a hustle player like JYD.

As for Howard and the pick we would get in your NY proposal, I'd rather keep Toine, particularly if we have to take JYD in the process. I do like Howard though. Boris has been pretty good over the last few games and he wasn't a BAD pick by BK but I can't help but wonder how the team would look if we had taken Howard instead of Boris as a few of us wanted him to do in last year's draft. Barbosa would have been pretty nice as well.

[Traceman]

obviously it is POSSIBLE that Toine wants to move on but I think you guys are making too much of this. First of all, with Toine in the last year of his deal, I'm sure he would LOVE for BK to come to him with an extension but BK is not likely to do that. That being the case, I'm sure that the uncertainty with his situation has Toine keeping ALL of his options open. Who knows the context of the comment in the Boston Herald? He could have said in response to a question about returning to Boston that he would love to return there if he doesn't get a contract extension. Then, the report simply says he would love to return to Boston. Personally, I think AW would LOVE to sign an extension here if BK makes him a reasonable offer. I think he likes Atlanta and I think he is tired of moving around.

[Packfill]

My two cents on this is that a trade of Walker for a draft pick at the deadline makes sense if Josh Smith and Childress continue to progress. I would like to see a lineup somepoint this season of Ivey, Childress, Smith, Harrington and Drobs.

Then in the off season BK would need to figure out what to do with the point guard and center position.

[Nicholasp27]

we can't give him an extension...that would mean like 14+mil/year

we would have to resign him as a FA, like any other team in the league...

that's why it's safer to go ahead and get something for him, if we can get something we can use...if not, we can just try to resign him...

if we do trade him, we can also try to sign him this summer...we trade him for dalembert, then we resign him this summer...

[Diesel]

It's a great risk to put him on the market....

We can't just sign an extension... That would be like starting at 15.7 million. Even for 3 yrs, that's like 3 yrs 47 million. He's not worth that. However, if we put him on the market, we have to know that he will resign with us... It's a great risk to make to risk him coming back to a rebuilding team and turning down more successful teams like PTL, NJ,Seattle, San Antonio, and the like. Those guys will have the money to make a good offer, maybe not 5 yr 55 million but something that is good and the ability to say that he will play on a playoff team.

That's a great risk in comparison to us trading him before the break and getting a pick and a player.

Quote:

---

If a deal we like comes along, obviously we should go ahead and pull the trigger. I don't like the NY deal at all because we would have to take JYD at 2 more years at over $6M per season. Heck, we would have had a VERY realistic shot at Swift THIS year if we had offered him $6.5M a season to start. Why pay JYD $6M when you could get a player in Swift's class for $6.5M to $7M a season? Would you trade JYD/Collier for Swift? JYD/Collier make a combined $7.5M a season. No way would I tie up $6M a season for a hustle player like JYD.

---

I think JYD is an adequate BU that brings energy. I also think that you need a hustle player in order to compete.