Tell me again, what was the plan?

[d2v16DKG]

All you guys were so excited about the firesale last year and getting rid of every last player which apparently even included, "The Stinger". Now with all this great cap room the Hawks have, they picked up some real gems in Walker and Harrington ( both who can't shoot foul shots)and retread Kenny Anderson. So now we're 4-20 with no hope in sight. Hawks are now officially unwatchable and even the expansion Bobcats make us look sick.

Yes, I like what I see of both Joshes and Royal Ivey looks good at times but let's face it this is a terrible team BK put together. I always thought it would have been a lot wiser to keep some of the players from last year (who were playing hard and playing well at the end of last year) rather than go for a clean sweep. Last year we were in most games; this year we are getting blown out early. The missed foul shots are making me sick. And I see no hint that anything will improve. I hope you're all happy with your cap room but at least last year's team was competitive and at least they were watchable.

OK so what is the plan now? Lose all the games and get the first draft pick? Yeah great plan, but a real fan doesn't root for their team to lose. At least I don't. But at this point, I find it hard to even watch them play.

By the way, where is Jon Barry these days?

[Nicholasp27]

this is YEAR ONE of rebuilding...

let's examine what we have so far...

SMOOVE, Al, Chill, Diaw, Ivey, Danta, Drob (good backup center)

so we have our backup point, backup center and our future 2/3/4 along with diaw and danta...

and we have cap space to get dalembert/swift/chandler/kwame...and a lotto pick to get felton, etc...

not bad for year one...

if we hadn't done the firesale, we would not have smoove, al, ivey, donta, drob...i think those guys + asset of walker is more than the assets/capspace of jt/sar/theo...

we aren't gonnna win this year, but smoove/al/diaw/chill/ivey/donta/drob will all improve...

[Diesel]

Before you gloat about the plans failure, you have to realize that the plan has not run it's course. This is merely a rebuilding year plain and simple. I mean you of all people should be in favor of the plan. It's the same blueprint that your beloved Kings used several years ago. They had a fire sale. They got rid of Mitch Richmond and everybody else who was a member of their overpaid losers... They went out and picked up troble Pf Webber in trade. They went out and got Vlade via FAcy. They got J-Will in the draft. Then they got Peja in the draft. The Hawks are doing the same thing. We got rid of a whole lot of overpaid players. Got new ownership. Went out and got J-chill, J-Smoove in FAcy.

Now, I don't believe that either Harrington or Walker will be there in the final edition of the plan... But please tell me that you don't think getting J-Smith was a bad thing? I suppose that this offseason we will get Swift and before this offseason, Walker might be traded for somebody worth trading for.

In short...

Don't talk about the cake before you get it out of the oven. Wait until it's done.

[emeans]

Harrington will be there in the final edition of the plan. Harrington isn't going anywhere. People can stop with the Harrington being shipped talk.

Walker is more of realistic threat of not being in the future plans of this team.

[Employee8]

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Harrington will be there in the final edition of the plan.

Harrington isn't going anywhere. People can stop with the Harrington being shipped talk.

Walker is more of realistic threat of not being in the future plans of this team.

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My, My....aren't we Confident?

What makes you believe that Harrington won't be gone also?

After all, the only reason he won't be dealt this year is because he has several years remaining on his current deal. Who's to say that he won't be dealt in his final year for another player or players??

EXACTLY.

(NO ONE IS UN-TOUCHABLE IN THIS LEAGUE!)

Also, BK likes players with Versatility and Walker fits the bill more than Harrington does. So who's to say that he turns around and keeps Walker while trading away Harrington/Diaw for some players?

Just think about that for a moment.....

[emeans]

You just answered your own question.

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After all, the only reason he won't be dealt this year is because he has several years remaining on his current deal

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There you go....He is relatively cheap right now, he is still very very young and he has superb basketball skills. Is it me or is that you in particular always forget that Walker is in the last year of his contract and he is going to command big bucks?? Why does that FACT always candidly slip your mind?

Based on BKs history of financial cap room intelligence and future rebuilding plan...again Walker is more likely to be moved that Harrington!!

Again Harrington is not going anywhere and I have no idea what your premise is other than shooting some type of versatility theory out of thin air, as if Harrington is not versatile.

Any more questions??

[Employee8]

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You just answered your own question.

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After all, the only reason he won't be dealt this year is because he has several years remaining on his current deal

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There you go....He is relatively cheap right now, he is still very very young and he has superb basketball skills. Is it me or is that you in particular always forget that Walker is in the last year of his contract and he is going to command big bucks?? Why does that FACT always candidly slip your mind?

Based on BKs history of financial cap room intelligence and future rebuilding plan...again Walker is more likely to be moved that Harrington!!

Again Harrington is not going anywhere and I have no idea what your premise is other than shooting some type of versatility theory out of thin air, as if Harrington is not versatile.

Any more questions??

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What are you babbling about? Versatility "theory"? BK HAS STATED THAT HE WANTED PLAYERS WHO ARE VERSATILE!!

Geez!

And anyway, I haven't forgotten that Walker is in the last year of his contract. I followed the guys career, you know. *rolls eyes*

And Walker is going to command Big bucks? It's likely but tell me something : Doesn't Atlanta HAVE THE MONEY? Don't tell me that they couldn't sign Walker to a Deal(not a MAX one) and not have room to sign a RAY ALLEN/MICHAEL REDD later? They *have* the room....

Oh and where did I say that Harrington was NOT Versatile? I said Walker is MORE VERSATILE than Harrington....

Hey emeans....READING IS FUNDAMENTAL. Start doing it.

[Diesel]

Harrington is a good young player. However, look at the circumstances in which we got him. We got him because we needed to get somebody for Jax. He overlapped our draft at the time. I think he's a good player, but I wouldn't say his spot is reserved. In fact, the logic question to ask is if Harrington was a FA would BK have picked him up? My guess is no. Not with Diaw, J-Smoove, D-Smith, already at the 3 spot.

The other thing is that J-Smoove and Harrington plays the exact same game. Except J-Smoove is a better defensive player/rebounder (instinctively). What this means is that as J-Smoove develops offensively, the question will be... What will we do with Harrington. True, we could move him to PF, but I believe wholeheartedly that BK's plan is to get Swift.

Hence, I think that Harrington is just here in transit. The question is is he tradable.

The answer is that he's more tradable than Walker. What I mean by that if we want to get good value for Harrington, it would be better to trade him now while he has time on his contract than to try to trade him in the last year of his deal. I think that teams will give up more valuble players and picks for Harrington than for Walker. Because Walker is seen as a "Rental".

So who do we get?

I have said before... Kwame Brown. I believe Kwame is another J. Oneal waiting to happen. He needs a new city to get excited. I could see us grooming Brown this year along with the young guns...

Brown/Walker/J-Smoove/Childress/Ivey.

If no good deals come for Walker I say we play with this. Then in the offseason, we get Swift and we consider resigning Walker at a reasonable contract. We also pick Paul and some Sf/Sg... Maybe the kid from Texas will be there in the 2nd.

[emeans]

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Oh and where did I say that Harrington was NOT Versatile? I said Walker is MORE VERSATILE than Harrington....

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I didn't say you said Harrington was NOT versatile. Where did you get that from? LETS READ shall we...I said...

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shooting some type of versatility theory out of thin air,

AS IF

AS IF Harrington is not versatile.

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"as if" and "was not" have two totally different meanings.

You're right Reading is Fundamental and COMPREHENSION is even more important.

BK thinks Harrington is very versatile too.

The bottom line is that they both bring different strengths to the table and they are both versatile, but Harrington is cheaper.

[emeans]

Your proposal makes a lot of sense. While I don't see Washington parting with Kwame realistically, that would probably be the only deal I would accept in trading Harrington.

I think Harrington can play the PF spot and Smooth the SF spot and be very effective. However, Kwame is more of a PF so that deal would make a lot sense to me.

The bottom line is if we were to depart with Harrington we would have to get a legitimate star Power Foward or Center back. I wouldn't give him up for draft picks which is an unknown commodity. Harrington has proven himself to be a good NBA player at a very reasonable price.

[phoostal]

I have to agree on D2's views.

Tell me what free agents are going to want and come play for this organization. None.

We are probably going to have to overpay marginal players to get them to come. Hoping that they will turn out to be star players. No marquee player will want to come here. We are labled as a losing franchise that can't get it right. We are the running joke in the NBA with every organization and media outlet.

Yes, we have some good young talent. Meaning J. Smith and Harrington. I would not be excited about Childress. The only thing he has proved is that he should have not been drafted with our 6th pick. The way it sits right now is that we blew a great opportunity to get an impact player with our 6th pick.

Ivey looked good early, but has struggled as of late. Diaw is nothing to right home about. So please don't tout him as something special. He is okay, that's it. Until he starts making jumpers on a consistent basis, he is an average player at best. Let's not talk about him as a good young player to build around.

Next year we get the 1st pick, give me a break. We are the Hawks we will end up picking 3rd. Thanks to the lottery. Not to mention the last two years the team with the worst record won the lottery. So that means somebody other than the owner of the worst record will probably win this year. It can't keep going to the worst record, it's a lottery. Besides this is the Hawks.

We should have kept some players from last year and freed some cap space. A combination of the two. Instead we chose to get rid of everything. This rebuilding process is going to take another 10 years. We are now going to be known as the Clippers of the east.

Also, has anyone thought about when our young guys get good why would they stay in Atlanta? Why stay on a losing team? I think if they get their chance they would want to split in a second.

The only thing that will change this is winning, but that is a pipe dream right now.

P

[Diesel]

Recently, look at the rise of Utah, Denver, Cleveland and Miami.

Also look at the rise of Sacramento.

The point is that all these teams were teams that Nobody wanted to playo for until that 1 player showed up:

Utah - AK47

Denver - Mello

Cleveland - Bron

Miami - Wade

Sacramento - Webber/Peja/J-Will

Where are we? We are about where Miami was before drafting Wade. Not a good team but we had some players.

The one thing that all these teams had in common was that they got a high draft pick that panned out.

I fully believe that J-Smoove will be a star in this league. I also believe that we can build something lasting and worthwhile if we build on the things that remain. I wouldn't trade Chillz/Smoove/Ivey right now. Everybody else is movable for the right price.

Like Miami we have a city that the players want to play in.

Like Denver we have set ourselves up with capspace.

Like Utah, we will have to be competitive before players will want to come. Like Utah, we will have to be fisically conservative and not overpay any player... (well Utah did overpay for BigTurk).

The point is that we are in the middle of what may take 3 yrs. The good news is that you can point to the talent that we have already aquired.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us keep Walker then in the offseason pick up Siwft/Dalembert. Overpay? Possibly...

But in the end, we will have team that looks like Detroit...Wallace/Wallace/Campbell/Okur...

Smith/Swift/Dalembert.

[Nicholasp27]

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the last two years the team with the worst record won the lottery. So that means somebody other than the owner of the worst record will probably win this year. It can't keep going to the worst record, it's a lottery.

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yes it can

it can go to the team with the worst record 10 years in a row...just like a roulette wheel can land on black 20 times in a row...

now, u can say that "someone other than the worst record will probably win this year" by itself, as the worst record only has 25% of the balls...so EVERY YEAR, someone other than the worst record will win (btw, we will NOT have the worst record this year)...but to say that the worst record has a lower chance of winning BECAUSE of the fact that the worst won the last two years is entirely wrong

[Nicholasp27]

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We should have kept some players from last year and freed some cap space. A combination of the two.

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and exactly WHO should we have kept?

terry, the career tweener who would never get us to a championship?

ratliff, who just wants to get paid and then ease off? who can't score or rebound, just block?

sar, who can't rebound or block or defend? who needs someone other than collier next to him?

exactly...

we had ZERO truly good pieces...and NONE fit with our defensive, athletic, long team blueprint (imagine that! bk actually HAS a blueprint...whether it works or not, at least we now have one, unlike babcock)...

so who would u wanna keep to prolong the rebuilding?

we kept diaw cause he has potential, crawford cause he coulda helped this year if not for injury and then is FA and collier cause we needed a big body...the latter two are not in future plans...diaw is if he becomes more aggressive...