I Just Don't Understand!!!!!!!

[LastDon]

There are two things that I don't understand and will give the reason why I feel that they aren't logical.

First off, I don't understand why everyone wants to give up on Al Harrington a guy who will finish the season averaging about 18/8 doing it mostly at the 3 position. My reasons for feeling this way is because I think that Josh Smith is 2 or 3 years away from being a starter in this league. I agree with most that Josh Smith is a good young player but at this stage of his career on any average team he would just be an energy guy at the 2,3,4. I think that Josh Smith could be the Hawks version of Al Harrington when he was with the Pacers. When Josh Smith's game develops to where he has a define position then we should make subtractions to the roster.

Another thing in defense of Al Harrington is that we have to take into account that he has played the entire season without a point guard. If Al was playing with a point on the level of Jamaal Tinsley or better I think his scoring average would be up by 4 points because PG's like Tinsley can set guys up and we haven't had that all year. Al has had to work for every shot. I haven't seen a game this season where Lue,Delk, or any of the other bums we've had at the 1 this season have penetrated the D and dropped a dime for an easy layup.

Lastly, I don't understand why Chill being able to rebound the basketball translates into him being a 3. The guy has did an exceptional job defending 2's and handling the ball his shot will come around like Hughes,Maggette,J.Rich shots came around with hard work in the gym.

[Packfill]

I agree with you. Everyone wants to run off Al. I like him. I think the Hawks can be very successful with Childress, Smoove and Harrington starting at the 2, 3 and 4 - regardless of which actual position each plays. The key obviously is bringing a decent center and quality point guard. For this reason I am leaning towards hoping the Hawks draft the best point guard available - whether that be Williams or Paul.

[Diesel]

Hey Don...

I will help....

Al has very little defensive component to his game AND he has very little rebounding despite the 8 boards. But the most important reason is because Al is coming up on a contract season. The main question becomes:

Do you want to pay Al 8-10 million per (as in 6 yrs 58 million dollars) for what he gives us now? Especially when we can probably get MORE from Smoove.. or Childress at the 3.

2nd...

Childress...

He can play the 2. The only point ever made about Childress is that he's a better 3. It's not because of rebounding, etc.. It's because being a 3 is his natural position. I can make a stronger argument (based on his style of play) that the only reasons you guys want to play Chillz as a 2 is because of availability AND his size. To be honest, his size factors very little seeing that he gets a lot of rebounds, so the bottom line is availability. "He's fast enough to guard a 2, he's a 2". This is not the best way to look at it. IF we didn't have Smoove or Harrington, what would Chillz be a 3 or a 2? In fact, if we traded Harrington and Smoove to Milwaukee for Redd and their first... After we took care of our big men, would you make Chillz sit the bench behind Redd and Start Donta as the Sf?

I think Chillz being a 2 is just convience. He's really much better at being a 3. His game is that of a three.

[Nicholasp27]

the reason we want to trade al is because

a) he is at MAX value this summer

b) if we don't trade him, we have to extend him at 8-10mil/year + raises

c) he's a tweener who has to be compensated for defensively, just like jt was

d) smoove will be our pf, so why pay al 10mil to be 6th man?

e) if we can trade him for a high pick, we can get a good pg prospect to go with bogut

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

e) if we can trade him for a high pick, we can get a good pg prospect to go with bogut

---

All of you guys are making the assumption that Jack or other point guard prospects will even make it in the NBA. Secondly you guys assume that it would take a max deal to resign Harrington. I don't know whether there is any evidence that either assumption will come true.

[Packfill]

Harrington is a starting forward on most teams in the league. Whether he is power forward or small forward is not as big an issue as whether a player is a "point" guard or not.

I also don't think he has to be compensated for on the defensive end. If the Hawks had a point guard who could at least slow down drives into the paint and a center who was not invisible Harrington's defense is not a great liability.

I don't think Al is a superstar by any means but he is a solid player who, coupled with Smith and Childress, provides the Hawks with a nice young foundation upon which to build.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

. Secondly you guys assume that it would take a max deal to resign Harrington.

---

Next yr, Harrington will be making 6.4 million or so...

Look at the average salary for a starting PF who has as many yrs as Harrington has...

8-10 is not the max. In fact, 8-10 is a little low in comparision with those criteria.

I really believe that Harrington will ask for 6 yr 67.5 million dollar deal. Is he worth that??

But even if he comes in with a deal for 8 to start...

That's still 6 yrs 54 million...

That's a lot of money for a guy who has weak defense and a tweener's game.

[Weez]

has anyone mentioned max deal? nope. All that has been said regarding his contract is that it's currently at 7+ million a year...and standard 'pay increase' in the NBA is 12.5% per year for a player continuing his Bird rights and signing an 'extension'.

~ 'max' would actually mean our deciding that he's worth the base-pay raise to 13 million a year, which no one is suggesting.

I'm completely with Disel on this one. It's not Al's game so much as it is his upcoming contract. True, many here are left 'wary' of tweeners at any position (after the JT~we love you as a player~years), but it's also about getting out of the cap-hell that we were in during the SAR-THEO-GRob days...

you want to know how you do build a team~ by watching your cap until you've got damn close to a 'sure thing,' ie Portland (5 years ago), SAC, SAN, etc.

Al's value is decently high right now...he could walk next year (with our getting nothing) if the 'right team' decides he's exactly what they need.

[TheDude]

our salary cap is fine and will be fine to sign harrington...we can't be afraid to spend money...i think BK needs to focus on getting us a point and a center rather than trying to change our pf position also...one thing at a time...if he does, he does..but i don't see it.

[gohawks11]

lastdon i totally agree with you 100% about keeping al. he could be a great platyer for the hawks.

[LastDon]

Why are you so against Al Harrington being in a Hawks uniform??? You stated "he has very little rebounding despite the 8 boards". Diesel any one who averages 8 boards in the league is considered to be a good rebounder. The games that I've seen this season (most home games) Al has done a descent job defensively guarding even though he doesn't get that many steals and blocks.

Name 5 games this season where someone just torched Al in the manner JT or Reef used to get torched when they were hawks.

You also stated that the main reason to rid ourselves of Al is because "what he gives us now doesn't merrit 8-10 million dollars" I think that a guy who is just entering his prime at 24 years of age is worth about that much over a 6 year period because he will still be in his prime during the back end of the deal and want be that hard to move because that is a very reasonable contract for the type of production he gives us.

I agree that if Josh Smith develops into the player that we think he is capable of being that we should trade Al because their games probably will be similiar in a couple of years but jumping the gun and moving Al now wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do in our quest to be a competitive team.

Keep Al,add some more tools,make J.Smith the six man and let's make the playoffs next season.

Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!

P.S. If Childress is not a 2 why after most of your trade proposals you have him slated as your starting 2 in a lineup with the player your trying to acquire.

[Weez]

Next Year he's making $6,875,000.

Here's a middle of the road guess-timate~ 5 years. Standard 12.5% raises relate.

2006-2007: $7,734,375

2007-2008: $8,701,171

2008-2009: $9,788,818

2009-2010: $11,012,420

2010-2011: $12,388,973

Avg over five year deal: $9,925,151

do you think that Al is worth that? it's really the bottom line...

note, if you don't offer at least this, it's likely that some team in the league will need his skill set. If this team is under the cap, they can outright offer more for him; if not, then snt is the option, whereby we would get something for him.

[Nicholasp27]

actually, that's not even the bottom line

to extend him in October, he has to agree...and i doubt he'll agree to extend starting at 7mil...he'd rather be a FA and test the waters to get paid more...

for him to sign an extension, we'd have to start at 9, prolly 10mil...otherwise he'll try to put up 20/10 next year and get the max from some team

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

First off, I don't understand why everyone wants to give up on Al Harrington a guy who will finish the season averaging about 18/8 doing it mostly at the 3 position.

---

No blocks

Poor FT shooter.

Lacks range on jumpshot

If you play 40MPG and play PF(ESP on a team without

many other rebounders)the you probably are going to

get alot of rebounds. And it's actually right on

7RPG and NOT 8. Really a PF averaging 7RPG in 39MPG

isn't all that impressive.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_harringto...x.html?nav=page

When you factor in that Al is only a decent defensive

player and a average rebounder and shot blocker I'd

just like to have a PF that can do those things better.

I don't like Al at the 3 because he has limited range.

Al simply is a tweener and if kept probably should be

a 6th man in the future playing about 30MPG like he

did with Indy.

[CBAreject]

No one is assuming Jack will make it in the NBA. We all know it's a gamble. We think it's a good gamble because we're in a tough spot with Harrington anyway. We aren't sure he's worth what he's going to command.

So, Jack's potential and low salary > Harrington, a known commodity, but very high salary

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Diesel any one who averages 8 boards in the league is considered to be a good rebounder.

---

Let's be a little more honest here...

Right now, AL averages 7.0 rebounds/Game EXACTLY... Not 7.2, 7.5 or 7.8... 7.0 exactly.

How many starting PFs can you name making 9-10 million per year averages 7.0 rpg?

The Point Don is this... For that kind of money, we should have expectations that Al will produce more.

Secondly, the Weakest part of our game is INTERIOR defense. With Al on the floor, we'd do better by putting my grandpa in a chair. At least he can box out.

The reason why Al is looking to lose 20 lbs is because Woodson has figured out that Al is not a good rebounder/defender.

So... Aside from all that other stuff...

Do we pay 9-10 million per for a PF who can only deliver 17.5 ppg/7.0 rpg? I don't think so...

About Chillz being 2.

Like I said, he can play the 2 but his natural position is the three.

In these proposals, the one thing I didn't mention but was assumed is that one day Smoove will move to the 4 and Chillz will move to the three.

For instance...

If we take Bogut..

then in FAcy, we overpay for J. Johnson..

It would leave us with:

PG/Johnson/Chillz/Smoove/Bogut...

In the future, that would be a good core (as Smoove develops his size and defense against PFs/Cs.

[bballfan]

I agree with you too. Hawks fans always pick on the teams best player, Walker is gone so Al gets all the blame.

[tmac13]

He is averaging 17.5 points and exactly 7 rebounds per game..Those are very average numbers considering he is the 1st offensive option and we have the worst rebounding centers in the history of basketball..His defense is also shakey. He is not strong enough to deal with the big 4's and not quick enough to handle the 3's. He is not bad, just not a high dollar type player. It seems like year after year the Hawks are trying to compensate for the shortcomings of a tweener..Al is just the lastest of those tweeners.

[Lascar78]

I have no problem trading Al, because while he is very talented, his game is kind of awkward and doesn't fit well in the flow of an offense.

BUT

I don't want him traded unless we get another talented established player in return. Again, no one wants to come to a team that is all 1st and 2nd year players. You need an established player to go with the youth movement to attract your first big free agent. I don't want Al traded for a pick because I feel it will hurt our FA recruiting alot more that whoever we get for him will help

[Weez]

what age/point in their career are you willing to trade for? how much give up?

I have alluded to the fact that, in certain ways, we are at a 'trading deficit' for 'established players,' having only Harrington (@25) as our only true asset. Diaw (to some) and a future pick is about all that we have to offer...thereby, anyone making a max contract is out of range.

I like Odom. So does Disel...how much would you give up for someone of that nature? A virtual all-star last year, groomed a 3 but shown capable at the 4 last year in Miami, he's one of the most versatile 4's in the L.

would you say Harrington, Diaw, and (the Lakers' own pick) back to them? would that be fair for both sides? or not the sort of player that you are interested in procuring?