I'm going to come out and say it...

[Nicholasp27]

I think bogut is hands-down the #1 pick of this draft and will be a top 4 center within 3 years...

i don't care about his weaknesses, because even "sure things" had weaknesses...lebron's shot and defense, okafor's back and offense...

the only unknown with bogut is whether he can continue to play like he has on the next level...well that's the question that EVERY player has...u never know, that's why there are disappointing picks...

bogut has DOMINATED and took a team of SCRUBS to the sweet 16 and went basket for basket, rebound for rebound with Duncan...

his weakness is quickness, but he's a center in today's nba...and his lack of quickness hasn't harmed him in college, as he has the iq and skill to overcome it, much like duncan does

he isn't as athletic as duncan so can't play pf like duncan, but i think he can be about as good as duncan would be playing center...

i'm not worried about his defense

i believe he'll still be able to rebound and score in the nba (remember, chill was the top rebounder in the Pac-10 and continued his rebounding being the #4 rookie as a sg...and okafor was mediocre at offense in college and is halfway decent in the nba)

i predicted chill would do what he's doing now back in october/november and i'll predict about bogut now...bogut will be the best rookie and will be a top 4 center in a few years...

i just hope that ball has a hawks logo on it on may 24th

[TheRedStripes]

I agree 100%

[Wretch]

Sure things don't have weaknesses. They have realative weaknesses and most of it is pure nitpicking. Most importantly though, there is never a real debate. Ever.

Would you take THIS year's Bogut hands down over LAST YEAR'S draft crop? Maybe some would...maybe some wouldn't.

What about these guys:

Duncan.

Shaq.

LeBron.

Magic.

Iverson.

Yao.

Hakeem.

NO QUESTIONS...and not based on what they did in the NBA. I'd take each of them over last year's crop in a fly sh#t millisecond. Can't say the same for Bogut. He's not a sure thing to me.

[TheRedStripes]

well...really the only debates are on message boards like this one filled with people who havent seen Bogut play more than a handful of times if that, all the experts...analysts and so forth pick Bogut

[Nicholasp27]

bogut doesn't have weaknesses either

just relative weaknesses

and we are just nitpicking...even the reports say "slow lateral quickness, but not as bad as it sounds" or such things...

and yes, i'd take bogut over anyone from last class, except maybe howard...and i think howard will be a top 3 pf in 4 years

[Wretch]

These opinions are formed before workouts and before the order of selection has been determined. I'll have a lot more confidence in Bogut if he is put to the test for the guys who will be drafting him and he's still considered a favorite.

...and I REALLY want the #1 pick. Not just to be able to select the player that we want...but to see just who we pick having a more glaring need than anyone else at both PG and C. What does it say about either player should either be picked? That interests me far more than any statistical breakdown for or against anyone.

[Wretch]

Careful with that...because there isn't an "except" when you are dealing with the other sure things. I'd take either of those guys with little to no thought about it whatsoever. Most people would and that's the difference.

[edit]

You think Bogut is a sure thing. I don't. I haven't seen enough of him or a big enough test against him to say that. Perhaps after he works out I can. Right now. No.

[Guest Walter]

I see your prediction of top 4 center coming true at the end of his third year, especially if we get a Pg that can defend his man, help run an offense, and hit the open shot.

[Guest Walter]

Let's be clear about one thing here. We are just as likely to get misinformation or no information (comign from BK) about these workouts. If you don't have a good opinion of him now , you probably won't have your mind changed.

W

[Wretch]

You're right about that. But usually, when there is a sure thing out there GMs usually don't try to hide who they're taking. Generally, everybody already knows.

...and who said anything about Billy Knight? He's one of quite a few GMs who will be looking at Bogut, all of which are not as tight lipped.

...and I have a good opinion of Bogut. It's just not as brilliant and flattering as yours. I have nothing to say about his offensive game, his passing, his IQ, his size, his toughness, or his attitude...because I have no questions. I wonder if he'll be able to run up that 20/10 in the pros...because he won't be competing against a conference that clearly cannot contain him - or even think about it.

[Weez]

here's a proposition to see which of you might be 'more validated' in your opinions...go to other teams' boards and see whom they would take with the pick were they to have it? good teams (who have no shot) and/or lesser teams who will likely have the 8-11 pick...whom do they think should be the number one? because of their own needs, or because they believe that player to be hands down better...

[Packfill]

I never would have pegged you as a Bogut supporter.

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

---

Careful with that...because there isn't an "except" when you are dealing with the other sure things. I'd take either of those guys with little to no thought about it whatsoever. Most people would and that's the difference.

---

?@no except

wouldn't u say u'd take lebron over anybody in duncan's draft "except" duncan...or maybe vice versa depending on ur opinion...

i'm saying i'd take him over anybody but the person i think will be a top 3 pf....

if u had to draft between shaq, jordan, duncan, garnett...then u'd take shaq over anyone except jordan, etc...

and again, they all had relative weaknesses, just like bogut does

[Nicholasp27]

last year the magic kept it secret who they would draft...they were 50/50 on howard/okafor because BOTH HAD QUESTION MARKS...howard was the less proven, longer developing potential star while okafor was more known but had questionable offensive skills and a bad back...

and nobody knows who has the first pick...why would bk say bogut is our first choice? if teams think it's paul then that could affect our trading currency more or less than if they think it's bogut....

[pathway23]

I'm with you Nicholas, I think that Bogut will be a top center in this league down the road.

[Wretch]

Surely I would say "except" in that situation. Yet, that doesn't make LeBron a standard draftee. That means you have two players who are both sure things and you take the one you like best.

The point that I am making though, is that last year's draft didn't have a clear cut #1. People debated between Okafor and Howard and people said each had specific weaknesess and it was totally true. Neither was considered a favorite and neither was considered a Duncan or LeBron type of prospect. That is, neither was considered a sure thing. Sure to be productive, probably...but not sure to be a star on the NBA level.

Put Bogut in that draft class and you have 3 guys who could each go #1 because they all have strengths and WEAKNESSES. It's hard to say that Bogut would be a overwhelming favorite for #2...let alone #1.

BUT...

Put LeBron in that same class. Put Duncan in that class. Put Magic in that class. Put Shaq in that class...and there are no questions and there is no debate.

Sure, you could put LeBron in Ducan's class. It might be a tossup... But put Bogut in there. There is no might.

We're not talking the same level of draftee here. The guys that I mentioned are sure things, no questions, few if any true weaknesses. Bogut has not established himself as that kind of draft candidate.

[chillzatl]

All this arm chair GM'ing means nothing. Once the workouts are in full swing, then we'll know. If word coming out of the workouts is that Bogut isn't all that, we'll know. If word coming out is that he's a star waiting to happen, we'll know. Right now everyone is forming opinions based on box scores and limited viewings in the tourney. The draft workouts are where the boys will be seperated from the men.

[Nicholasp27]

bottom line is howard is worth a #1...and i believe bogut is worth a #1 as well...not because it's a weak class, but because he's a good player

any year without a lebron/duncan/jordan, and howard #1 is good...doesn't mean it's because it's a weak draft, in fact this past draft was pretty deep...it's because he is a good player and great prospect

same for bogut