BK to Bickerstaff... You're going to have to give

[Diesel]

more for Williams...

I think BK is just patiently waiting. He knows that Bickerstaff wants Marvin Williams badly and he's just letting that temptation consume Bickerstaff..

I think you may see us trade Williams to Charlotte but it will be for a lot more than just #5, #13...

Either a future first or Brezec or Ely... would be added..

For argument sakes, lets say it was Ely.

5,13, Ely for #2..

Hmm...

[Plainview1981]

THat is probably alittle too much for Bernie to

give up.

[Diesel]

Well, the reports coming out of Charlotte are that BB wants Marvin Williams... He might be willing to get a huge package to Milwaukee for Williams... (whatever that means)..

But I don't see BK lifting his finger to help BB... Divisional rivals are that way. I think if anything, BK will use this opportunity to deny BB... Even if it means taking a guy that we don't need so that BB can't get him by any other means.

[macdaddy]

This is our chance to draft a possible superstar. Its going to take a lot for us to give that up. I'd rather have Bogut but I'm fine with Williams too. I'd hate to see us trade the pick at all.

[Diesel]

I think both Bogut and Williams are products of the Hype Machine. I think when it's all said and done, there are no better than anybody you can get with the top 8 picks.

[Iman]

I do think this is a top two player draft and it wouldnt shock me to see Bickerstaff offer that deal. It would probably happen right when Charlotte came into position to draft and Paul is gone. If Deron Williams was available at #5, I'd be all over that trade. Or it might be smarter to take Green or Wright at #5 then Ukic or Jack at #13.

[Boondocks]

Yeah I know it's Sam Smith but worth mentioning anyway

Quote:

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Atlanta, at No. 2, is said to be desperate for Bogut. Would Milwaukee trade down? The Bucks remain unsure about the return of T.J. Ford, who is recovering from back surgery, so they need a point guard. Would Atlanta, rich in wing players, put together a package with Al Harrington to move up and get Bogut? The Bucks then would have a post-up scorer to complement Michael Redd (assuming he re-signs) and could draft a point guard.

---

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...0506060109jun06,1,7528628.column?coll=cs-columnists&ctrack=1&cset=true

Desperate for Bogut?

We're in a good position with the #2, we don't have to choose between Williams or Bogut, just take who's left.

[TheDude]

no need to trade up for bogut...i say we pick for whoever is left...al can get us something else.

[CBAreject]

That's a huge amount to trade up 1 choice. I'm a big proponent of drafting Bogut, but I admit he's not Shaq. I'd love to have him on our team, though.

Marvin Williams is such a great talent that I don't think Bogut's necessarily a better choice. I would pick Bogut first, but in 3 years, we might be glad we got the #2 so we wouldn't have to. Williams could be the top small forward in the league in 3-4 years.

Al is a solid young player who is better than what you could get at 13 MOST LIKELY. I wouldn't do that trade unless Milwaukee sent something back. If Milwaukee even wanted to do that trade, it would signal that they want Marvin Williams in the first place (in my opinion).

I've been suspicious from the beginning that Milwaukee DOES want MWil, and they're just trying to milk somebody for a nice young player to move down to 2 or 3.

If Milwaukee asked for the Boston pick or our #31, I would trade up to the 1st. I think Al is a little too much, though. I say we sit tight and call their bluff.

[TheDude]

what cba said.

[Nicholasp27]

i'd trade a decent amount to move up to #1 to pick bogut

i'd give up #2/la pick/diaw

i'd give up #2/al for #1 if we can get a top 20 some other way to get ukic/jack

[emeans]

Williams is more than just hype. This kid is the real deal.

Read the article about Williams in todays AJC. Experts are saying this kid will be leading a team into the Championship in 3 to 4 years.

Guys like Joe Forte and others that are working out with him in the summer are saying he is one of the best unstoppable offensive forces that has come out in years. Almost Lebron James level talent. He can score at will from the outside and inside. They even say in the article that he has PG type handles. They are saying he is a sure fire SUPERSTAR!!!There are absolutely no questions about it.

I am sorry everyone on this forum including you Diesel......We can't lose him to a trade people. We have to draft him and keep him. We will be kicking ourselves in the backside when he starts to go to All-Star games year in and year out and we TRADED him. We have to draft Marvin Williams and keep him.

Please read the article. This kid is humble, grounded and smart. There is no way I consider trading a sure fire Superstar...no way.

[Nicholasp27]

well he's not a sure-fire superstar

but i agree, if we don't get bogut, draft marvin

trade someone else to get ukic/jack

[emeans]

Quote:

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well he's not a sure-fire superstar

---

Based on every single publication I have read about Williams, he will be a sure-fire Superstar in this league.

Of course that is all conjecture, and we have to wait and see, but the fact that EVERYONE is saying this about this kid is really impressive and I can't see us trading him away if that is the case.

[Diesel]

Never believe the Hype...

Let me give you a bit of hype example...

Quote:

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allas,Texas: Hey Dave,I cant let you keep saying J Williams should be first pick. You had a point at the beginning of draft talk but now that Dunleavy is in it please be flexible and view the facts. JW can score I admit but look at the big games in college in most of them he was M.I.A. Players with a coaches mind and an athletes body are few and far between.Little guards that drive and score come out every year.It is a shame good minds like Pepe Sanchez have to get shelved because they dont have the athleticism but Dunleavy does so give him his due. It is like choosing between Scottie Pippen and Damon Stoudamire. Your team needs a leader not just 25-30 points. They need poise,responsibility,assists,defense, a spokesman, someone to run the show and be an anchor. Defend yourself or Agree?

David DuPree: Okay, I'll defend myself by agreeing. I have been saying lately that I'd take Dunleavy for the very reasons you mention. Williams is still only 6-2 and is a shooting point guard and Yao Ming is too big a question mark.

That leaves Dunleavy as the best sure thing.

I'd take him in a heartbeat and believe me, every team in the league is thinking the same thing. I like your insight.

---

OK... Back to what's hype. You say Forte said this kid was unstoppable. I watched him get Stopped in 3 of the NCAA tourney games. You need to check and see if Forte has the same agent as Williams. If you want to see the Hype Machine in action..

Check out the Taft Stuff. Taft has dogged it in workouts... His agent is going around paying people to say that he's doing well. The printed Media has no scruples.... Especially not guys like Vecsey and Chad Ford.

[Lascar78]

we all know that Yao was the concensus #1 pick that year. I don't care what Donald Dupree says. I didn't hear of anyone seriously suggesting that Dunleavy was even in the discussion other that this guy. That's not hype, it's one moron. The only name that even came up in the nationwide discussion was Williams.

Just like the nationwide concensus right now is that Bogut + Williams are head and shoulders above the rest right now. You can find people who still think Paul is the best, or you could quote josh_smith_fan as saying Martynas is the best, but we all know that overall, most agree that it's Bogut + Williams, not necessarily in that order.

It's not hype. It's educated opinion. That's not to say that either one can't be a horrendous bust, because any prediction can always be wrong. But these guys are not highly regarded just because the media talks about them alot. Bogut is highly regarded because of his skills, the toughness he's shown, and his accomplishments in the NCAA and olympics. Marvin is praised because of his individual skills for his size, and his knowledge of the game. Even though he never got PT or proved himself against serious competition, people seem to agree on his potential much like everyone agreed on Lebron's future even when he was just playing high schoolers.

You're probably right to never trust any particular source (i.e. Forte, or Ford), but it's not like only a couple of people are praising him. Everyone who's seen him seems to agree. Much like everyone agree on Lebron even though I wasn't so sure that he would hold up in the NBA.

[emeans]

I understand fully about hype, but I also no how to dicipher hype from reality. The best way to get thru the hype machine is to take a survey from all types of critics and writers. In other words a cross-section of each type of writer from different geographical and personal interest areas. Black, white, green, red, from rural areas to suburban areas. You get a cross mixture of critics when evaluating anything that you don't see live and up-close on a consistent basis.

I totally agree some writers have their own agendas. Some are getting paid to do what they do. But I have read in excess of about 20 publications on Marvin Williams from reports of different backgrounds and ethnic groups and they are all singing the same song about this kid. In a nutshell, Marvin Williams will be a Superstar in the NBA. Not just solid but a SuperStar!!

About the NCAAs...you can't evaluate a players potential solely on that tournament. If that was the case Sean May would be the No. 1 pick in the draft, no question...get my point.

[Diesel]

Quote:

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The best way to get thru the hype machine is to take a survey from all types of critics and writers.

---

No... That leads down the road of destruction everytime... This is what drives the hype machine. Your readiness to go with the crowd. Writers inspire the crowd. One writer mindlessly copies another and this goes on a few times until people like you come along an take the hype as fact. The Agents know how the hype machine works so you get guys like Taft's agent spreading that Taft beat May in all facets of the game... It gets reported that way... A few reporters pick up that and this hype is taken as truth..

The best way to get through the Hype machine is to actually sit down and watch games yourself.

I have watched too much of Paul. At least 4 games of Bogut. several games of Frye. Several games of Marvin Williams. Several games of D. Williams.

What I know.

Paul's defense is not a problem and Paul will proabably be a star. Paul plays the passing Lanes like Iverson. He's a floor general better than Sherman Douglass and he has speed like TJ Ford. The only question is his strength. Is he durable like Iverson?

Bogut has good offense. I don't question that. I think he has built up a reputation in a weak conference (weaker than usual). He's not a quick player. He's not that good defensively. The biggest question is can his defensive weakness be covered?

Williams is a great athlete. He shoots very well. He can jump very well. He can run fairly well. He played in a college system that showcased his athleticism. The question is: where will he eventually fall and what about his defense. I think the defense is a question for every player coming out of Carolina. The style of offense that they played really enhanced their defense or lack thereof (especially at the PG position) I don't know if any of these guys are good one on one defenders.

Frye is one of my favorites out of this draft. I have seen him play big in big games. He played big against Diogu and Bogut. I think the thing that has helped and has hindered Frye is that he is used to playing for a team with shooters. It helps him because Arizona lived by the three more than they lived by the post play. Even though this is true (and have been for most of Lute's coaching career) Frye still got better over the years.. It also hurt him because he was never called on to be the man in the post (like May at UNC). So the question about Frye is can he translate to being a prominent offensive piece in the pros?

D. Will. The reason I want D. Will is simple. He's probably the best PG I have seen coming out of college in a long time. Bibby was celebrated as being a smart PG who would probably be a great. However, Bibby was not the PG that D Will was offensively nor defensively. Andre Miller was a good solid PG in College. A really big guard who could run the offense. The difference... Miller wasn't much of a shooter or a defender. Utah would run those "JUNK" defenses that RM like to run. The triangle and 2 was their bread and butter. In that defense, Miller wasn't asked to shut down anybody. Him and Van Horn were protected from accusations of weak defenses. D Will is probably the best one on one defender that has come out since Mookie. And if you watched Mookie at OU with Stacey King, you know what I'm talking about. D Will is not as slow as some supposed. He has the gametime speed displayed by guys like Jerry Rice, Magic Johnson, and John Stockton.

The point... Watch the games... Guys argue here all the time about a player that they never watched...That's why Olowakandi went first... Never been watched..

[Lascar78]

^^^ That's BS. The reason olowokandi went first isn't because nobody watched him. The people making the actual decisions (GMs+scouts...) have watched hours and hours of all the players they consider. Bad players get drafted because their game doesn't translate to the pros like people thought it would, or they don't work hard enough. No matter what, you're predicting the future and it's easy to make a mistake.

Besides, I think BK made it crystal clear with the Childress pick that he does his own thing and doesn't worry about the hype

[TheDude]

ok everyone mark it down...Bogut is Luc Longley and Marvin Williams was just hype...