BK to Bickerstaff... You're going to have to give

[Final_quest]

So it just so happens that of all the NBA players to compare Bogut the one he resembles most was also from Australia. Did he go to the Luc Longley school of basketball?

What about Schenser? I guess he is just like Luc Longley too.

[Diesel]

Nobody ever said anything about GMs talk.. I said about Reporters/pundits/critics talk...

Second off, what GM do you think you're honestly hearing from?

I know it's not BK... BK has a poker face that can make you think he's holding 4 aces all the time... And he never tells the media ANYTHING... That's how you know there's a lie about the Hawks.. When somebody says that the "Hawks front office likes".... THATS A LIE... BK never reveals anything about his feelings to anybody. Check out what the Owners of the Hawks say about being in the dark... They're almost as in the dark as the rest of us.

Back to what I was saying...

Many GMs use the Media to leak stuff for their own gain. Sure.... Nash will leak word that he's interested in Paul.. IF he can get somebody to believe him and play around him?

But normally, if it's written down.. Especially about a player, you have to take it with a grain of salt if you haven't seen it for yourself.

[Lascar78]

No he will play like Mark Eaton because of the red hair

[OGRat]

Why not Bill Walton?

[jezmund]

Finally a player that would symbolize a positive comparison. I don't know if Bogut will be a star or not but he will be a major contributor for whatever team he goes to. I think his offense will eat one-on-one defense alive and if he can command a double-team than you got yourself a player.

[ggp]

Diesel you are right that the hype machines are in full swing. However, I hope that you are not saying that Marvin Williams is an average prospect. He is basically a high schooler with enormous talent. The thing that separates him from similarly gifted prospects is his maturity and dedication to the game. In my book, he is a prospect that falls between Carmelo Anthony and Lebron James. The kid has skills and is unselfish.

I agree that Chris Paul will be a star in the NBA, but Marvin will also be a marquee player.

I see this draft as being above average at the top 5 and solid as far as depth throughout the first round. The question is what should BK do with all of this? Trading down one or two slots will land us a Point Guard that will lead the team for the next decade. Trading up will get us a Center that will not dominate, but will stabilize the team for the short run. Staying put and drafting M Williams will add a star to the team and allow us to trade a Forward for a reasonably good PG.

So, should we take Paul or D Williams or should we go after a second tier PG in this draft (about the same quality as a first tier PG in recent drafts). My opinion is that we draft Marvin Williams and then work a deal for another first rounder and draft our PG...Jack, Heard, Gilchrist, etc.

[KB21]

Marvin Williams is better than Carmelo Anthony, definitely!! The only reason Marvin didn't put up the numbers that Carmelo did as a true freshman is that he was on a better team. Carmelo's role at Syracuse was to be the guy. Marvin's role at NC was to come in, play defense, rebound, and make opportunistic shots.

The only drawback to Marvin at this point is that we haven't seen what he is capable of, which, given his talent, is a lot.

[ChiFan]

Given the talent that Bickerstaff can get with the #5 and #13 picks in this draft, he's not going to give up more than those picks. In fact, I'd be surprised if he makes the deal at all. Charlotte getting two quality starters is a lot for an expansion team that's trying to build a solid foundation to give up. Granted, if it was Lebron or Duncan and he was contemplating giving up the picks for them, he'd probably do it, but there's nothing except hype and potential to say Marvin Williams will be anything close to either of those two players. I say Bickerstaff keeps his picks and takes a point guard at #5 and a swing man with the #13 - either Danny Granger or Antoine Wright if they're still on the board. If those two are gone, they might look to trade down for either Martell Webster or Joey Graham.

[Diesel]

Bickerstaff is going to be sick when he sees Williams/Paul go 2/3...

If Utah gets some balls and move up to 4... for 6/25.

Bickerstaff will surely be sick to his stomach if he sees:

Williams/Paul/Williams go 2/3/4...

Bickerstaff was hoping to get either Paul or Williams with the 5 picks...

I read one reporter from the Charlotte Observer who admantly said that Charlotte has to get Paul out of this draft.

Now... Looking at his team.

I think Bickerstaff can get away with Felton. I don't know if Felton will be that much better than Hart/Knight combo that did so well this past season. But he will bring people in.

The real problem is that the draft won't produce anybody that can make Charlotte better. More than potential, Charlotte needs to get better every year in order to build a fan base...

So as that writer was saying for them... 1 good pick is better than 2 mediocre picks.

I think Charlotte is feeling the screws.

All that's left for them to do is take Caron Butler and #10 so that the Lakers can get Green with #5. At least Butler is a good player.

[Traceman]

why is there even a debate as to who will go number one overall? You really think Williams will average 21/6/3 and lead a lottery team to the playoffs as a rookie as Melo did? If we drafted Williams and he put up numbers like that as a rookie, I would be THRILLED with him. I just don't see how you can make the statement that Williams "is better than Carmelo Anthony, definitely" when Carmelo has already proven that he can lead a college team to an NCAA championship and an NBA team to the playoffs and Williams has proven neither.

[KB21]

Because Carmelo is an overrated shot chucker much like Glenn Robinson was when he was young. Carmelo brings very little else to the game other than his mid range jump shooting ability. Poor defender, poor passer, average rebounder......he's a shot chucker.

Marvin William's skill level and talent are so much more than Carmelo's. Marvin will be an above average rebounder for a small forward, a great scorer because he can score in the post, mid range, and deep. He's a better passer than Carmelo, is much more athletic than Carmelo, and is a better defender than Carmelo.

What kind of numbers do you think Carmelo would have put up on a team that had Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, Sean May, and Jawad Williams?

[Admin]

You are making those statements trying to make them sound like facts when they are nothing but bias against Carmelo. Its obvious that you dont like the guy, but there is NO DENYING what he did for Syracuse as the go to guy and what he did for Denver as a rookie. Marvin did nothing like either of those for UNC. I think that if you had put him on a team with 1-2 other late 1st round type players like Jerry McNamara and Hakim Warrick and forced him to be the star player that he wouldnt come anywhere near what Carmelo did which was beat a veteran Roy Williams lead Kanas team for the NCAA Championship. Then he comes into the pros being constantly compared to Lebron, gets dissed by having an unknown like Darko get picked ahead of him in the draft and still leads Denver to the playoffs his rookie year.

The facts are that Carmelo can score from anywhere on the court against anybody. He doesnt have the best 3pt game around, but a traditional SF doesnt play that type of game and that is what he is. Obviously you dont like Glenn Robinson either so thats why you try and compare the two players when the facts are that other than maybe being the 2 best mid range shooters in the game they are nothing alike. Carmelo will do whatever he is asked by his coach and yeah so what if he bitches a little about it, you gonna tell me that you dont bitch when your boss asks you to do something you dont want to do at least every once in a while? This isnt a statement just against you KB, but against everyone out there who says this crap about Carmelo when they dont have a clue what type of person he really is.

I tell you what though, if Marvin comes in next year and puts up 20+ ppg, with 6+ rpg, and 3+ apg, I will say that I was wrong and that Marvin is as good as Carmelo. I am pretty damn confident though that he wont even sniff those types of numbers because I dont believe that he is the type of player who can put a team on his back.

[cyman3]

simply put

if Carmelo (as a freshy) was in Marvins position, its safe to say that UNC would have won the NCAA championship. He would come off the bench like Marvin and they would win it.

if Marvin was in Carmelos position at Syracuse- u cant automatically say that he would have lead the team against Collison + Henrich. He may have been able to, he may not. WE JUST DO NOT KNOW and we never will. Marvin never had the green light to be "THE MAN" like Carmelo.

keep that in mind

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we know what Carmelo Anthony has done in his first year. Yes he lead his team to the playoffs. However, he had Camby, Andre Miller, Chris Anderson, etc and they made the 8th seed.

if Marvin Williams came out, and lead his lottery bound team (either BUCKS or HAWKS) to the 8th spot... it isint likely, but its possible. anythings possible.

so if that does happen- could we end the Williams/Anthony debate? or will it continue with the "western conference is harder" argument?

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btw, im trying to be as unbiased as i can be. im not gonna give a premature INPUT and say who's better when i havent even seen Marvin Williams play at the NBA LEVEL. but once i do, i let u guys know what i think.

however, CARMELO (in terms of stats) did set the bar pretty high for a rookie.

if it wasnt for LEBRON JAMES, he would have won ROOKIE OF THE YEAR AWARD.

now if Marvin Williams does any of the 3 (or gets close to all 3), he will have my respect to be the equal of Carmelo Anthony

1) Lead team to the playoffs (or get really close... ala Lebron James this past year)

2) Win NBA ROOKIE OF THE YEAR AWARD (or get really close... ala Carmelo Anthony a few years ago)

3) Post similar stats as CARMELO ANTHONY (or again, get really close).

the bar is definitely set HIGH. if i had to make a BET, i would bet against MARVIN WILLIAMS.

but who knows, maybe this guy is really the ready?

[Admin]

and not only would he have started, he would have been the man on the team. He wouldnt have disappeared in the big games at the end like Marvin did. I say that simply because of the FACT that Marvin did disappear and aside from that one put back (that any college player could have made) in the title game, what did he really do? I also say that because Carmelo put the Orange on his back and beat a veteran team that was more talented than them. He wasnt the only reason that they won, but he was the main reason. When he has his confidence going he is unstoppable at scoring the basketball and unlike the comparison to Glenn Robinson, he demands the ball in the clutch.

Hey I would love to see Marvin do great in the NBA, but I just think that everyone is getting a little too excited about a guy that wasnt even one of the 5 best HS players from a year ago. I wouldnt even take him over JR Smith and maybe not even over Sebastian Telfair. In my mind you have Bogut, Deron and Chris as the 3 potential star NBA players from this draft. Marvin may end up better than all of them, but I just dont see him having the drive to be a star like a Lebron or Carmelo or Amare or Wade have.

[Diesel]

Is it still marked?

[Swatguy]

Quote:

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Is it still marked?

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D you are the MAN. I too was in the hype machine. But never thought Marvin was better than 'Melo. Oh Gosh !!!

[BusBoyIsBack]

That's cold blooded Diesel.

Glad I ddin't make a Melo or Lebron statement.

Seriously though, it's too early to proclaim Marvin a bust but I admit those comparisons are laughable right now.

[thesheedera]

I don't think I was posting at this point, pretty incredible statements being made about Marv!

I think I understand more now about the anti-Marvin sentiment on this board. This kind of hype (declaring him a sure-fire superstar, better than player x, player y) was not the same kind of hype that was going around the national media at the time. There were thoughts that he "could" be that great one day, but I never remember anyone saying sure-fire superstar.

I remember a lot of projections like "Worthy with a jumpshot", but I remember those as the top of the cieling possibilities, not something someone would bet their life on.

And he still "could" become that, but you'd be crazy to think it's just an eventual fact of life.

I think us Marvin supporters must get lumped into the same category as the posters that came around here and declared Marv's superstardom as if it were future gospel.

I thought it was pretty clear that the Marvin/Bogut draft was awfully weak compared to drafts like the '03 draft???

You can't just substitute on #2 for anotehr, and assume they should become equal level players, right?