Videos of all the College Guys except Deron.

[Lascar78]

a) I don't recall where I saw his buyout. I don't even think I said anything about it in this thread so I forget. I believe it was at draft city, but I dont see it at draftexpress

b) A shooting big man is useless if he can't hold his own down low. Why should Martynas be any better than Drobnjak? Even if he is as good a shooter, he doesn't have the mass to hold his own in the post on offense or on D. He is probably 3-4 years from holding his own in the post if he ever gets there.

It is rare to find a 6'8"-6'9" guy who has great handles, is a great shooter, is very athletic, very motivated, and has great basketball IQ. He hasn't really developed go-to moves off the dribble or in the paint yet, but he has all the physical and mental tools. He could bust, but he has all the tools to be a star. His D is ok though not yet great. It's better than Smoove's from what I've seen (monster shot blocking excluded).

Compare that to Marty, he's a 7'3" guy who can hit a shot. That's it. He can't handle his own on D against big guys in the paint. He can't do much with the ball in the paint. He can't handle a pick and roll without falling in the floor. He can't take anyone off the dribble. He's not a great rebounder. All he is is a skinny 7'3" guy with a jumper who can run relatively fast for a guy that tall. What makes him good? I don't see it.

I mean the main reason I'm afraid of Marvin is that he only averaged 10 and 6 or whatever that was he got in limited minutes at UNC. That's a legitimate concern for a pick that hi. Now compare that to Marty. He's in the Euroleagues and only averaging 1 and 2 I believe. That's horrible. If he can't handle his own in Europe where players are less physical, how could he handle the NBA? He can't at this point and that's why Sabonis is telling him to stay until he is.

You tell us to read the weaknesses of Marvin on draftexpress, read what they write on Marty:

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"Great size and athleticism, but too skinny and timid to fully use it even against the weakest of competition. A very disappointing season left him averaging 2 points and 1 rebound in the Euroleague, and about double that in the very weak Lithuanian league. Those are hardly the credentials of a lottery pick, especially with the lessons NBA teams have learned from the past few years. Martynas has top 5 potential, but this draft is simply too early for him as he is still years away from fulfilling it. Sitting on an NBA bench for 2-3 years would be disastrous for him.

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While the potential is there, he is not much of a defensive presence yet despite his size. Very foul prone, bites for too many fakes and gets caught out of position on rotations. He does change the occasional shot because of his height, but nothing consistently yet. Might lack the timing and the vertical leap to become an imposing defender in the NBA, but he has plenty of time to work on that. He is very very skinny, almost rail thin, and unlike a lot of skinny Europeans his age, he is also very weak. This is probably his biggest weakness and the #1 thing holding him back right now. He has trouble not being pushed aside in the paint, even against players his age who are 6 inches shorter then him. His rebounding and effectiveness around the basket on offense and defense suffer because of this. He will often get manhandled out of the paint, which makes him drift toward the perimeter. He seems to have trouble being defended by smaller defenders, especially when he is being bumped around. This is a big one on the NBA level, he has to work on this.

He seems to have trouble catching easy passes sometimes, that might be because of a lack of concentration. Footwork needs a lot of work, on both sides of the floor. Defensively, he is often slow to rotate laterally and provide help. Offensively, he doesn't have any real post moves to go to in the paint just yet. If you consider the position he is expected to play in the pros, that needs to change and quickly. Playing with more composure and a consistent level of intensity is a must. Minor, but recurring injuries hurt him somewhat this year. Should teams be concerned by that?

Lacks experience playing against the higher levels of competition. Has yet to dominate players in his own age group. Would probably struggle right now in a league like Spain or Italy or in the more physical ones like Greece of Turkey.

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In a perfect world, Andriuskevicius would be left alone to develop in Europe for the next few years. No would pay much attention to a guy that isn't dominating 6-9 players on the same age level, that hasn't even made a wrinkle on European basketball yet. He wouldn't read all the superlatives people are throwing at him, and he would be able to decide what his potential is for himself.

Unfortunately that is not the case. Every draft enthusiast knows his name and some of them can even spell it for you. His name has been entered into the draft this year, because there is a chance that someone will draft him right now in the lottery, solely based on what he might become in 4-5 years. From Martynas' and his agent's point of view, why not? International players do not operate under the same rules that NCAA players do. He basically has nothing to lose. Andriuskevicius can enter his name in the draft and pull out as many times as he wants to until the year 2008. Come draft day (if he stays in), the hype around him will be so intense that is almost going to be impossible not to give him a good hard look and start thinking about what a versatile and athletic 7-2 Center can do for your front line (way) down the road. And did we mention he practices with Sabonis? Write down how many times you hear that from now until the draft, it's usually the very first thing mentioned. From what his agent has told us, he (most likely) has no intentions of sending him over to the States for private workouts. Whatever teams know about him right now is exactly what they get. Considering the way he played last month in the junior tournament in Tel Aviv, he should feel quite fortunate that the word had already gotten out that he is not going to declare for the draft this year.

Martynas has all the talent in the world, but if the expectations from him are too high (like what is starting to happen with Darko Milicic) people are probably going to lose patience with him and they (fans/media/coaches) might kill his confidence and not let him reach his full potential. Sitting on the bench is not going to help him much. He could use at least another two years of regular playing time in a friendly environment, adding lots of strength to his body, learning to play like a true center inside the paint, and polishing his game. If he is drafted into the right situation (Portland with Sabonis anyone?), similar to the situation Nenad Krstic was drafted into, he has the chance to become an excellent player. If the situation isn't right he could just as easily be added to the list of 7 footers that never panned out.

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I understand the lure of a 7'3" monster, that you heard good things, and that you committed to him being "your boy" , but at some point you have to face the facts. He's not remotely ready to make the jump, and there's no way to know if he'll ever be NBA caliber. I'm sure he'll get drafted, but who knows if he'll ever get NBA minutes. I see him as a quicker, less talented shawn bradley personally.

Just let it go man, he might be more ready in a couple of years...

[hotboyj]

You can say whatever you want about Martynas, time will tell the story and the same goes for Marvin. All I'm saying is I would rather take a chance on a guy who is 7-3, can take his man off the dribble, can shoot, can block, and only needs to bulk up, over a guy who is six inches shorter, plays a position we have too much of, like I said before a mediocre defender. The reason I can say what I want about Marty is while I think he may be one of the best players to come out of this draft I don't see him playing for the Hawks any time soon. Marvin might be playing for the Hawks and I don't think he'll do much contributions besides ticket sales his first couple of years.

I have said it a million times Martynas only needs to get stronger. That is it people. After a year in the weight room, he should be a very dominant player. The only thing you can say bad about Martynas is his strength and then what?

[Lascar78]

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All I'm saying is I would rather take a chance on a guy who is 7-3, can take his man off the dribble, can shoot, can block, and only needs to bulk up, over a guy who is six inches shorter, plays a position we have too much of, like I said before a mediocre defender.

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The problem there is that he CAN'T take his man off the dribble, he CAN'T block well. Again, all he has for him is height and he can shoot decently. You're ignoring the facts. He can't get blocks against players 6 inches shorter than him that are his age, and not as buff as US players. And he can't do anything off the dribble. I mean I can make any player sound good if I make up things about them. Will he be able to do those things in 4 years? Maybe, in which case he might be a true stud. But as of right now he's nothing, really, other than his height.

Shawn Bradley at his best was 3 inches taller, and got 12, 8, and 4 on 44% shooting. I'd be pleasantly surprised if Martynas ever gets that good. I would not draft Bradley with the #2 pick of this draft, would you?

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The reason I can say what I want about Marty is while I think he may be one of the best players to come out of this draft I don't see him playing for the Hawks any time soon.

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And I hope for him he won't be coming out of this draft. Look you're entitled to think what you want, but other than you just picking this guy as your boy, there's no rational reason to consider this guy to be a future star.

[Nicholasp27]

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Amare is what he is because of Nash. As long as we get the good pg, no athleticism should go to waste.

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too bad amare put up monster numbers last season when there was no starbury or nash there...just johnson/barbosa trying to man the pg slot

amare is a good player, period...he doesn't need a great pg...a great pg just brings out even more

[AHF]

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they just can't seem to do well at the line, so the whole freethrow crap you can throw out of the window. As far as his 3 point percentage he only made 19 3pters in 36 games and they all were wide open so he made 43% . Chillz made 34 3pters in 23 games in college and shot 39.5%

Marvin got open shots from kickout from double teams on May, and drive and dish plays from Felton. Now can anyone even name a player Chillz played with his last year at Stanford?

And still no one has answered my question why Marvin is worthy of a #2 pick.

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Ha, ha, ha about throwing the "freethrow crap" out the window. FT shooting is a huge hole in both those guys' games. Moreover, high FT %s correlate very strongly to good shooters. Even if I concede that some players with pretty good jump shots are bad FT shooters, it doesn't change the fact that outstanding FT shooters are usually outstanding shooters in general.

1 Reggie Miller, IND 66 14.8 3.8 4.1 250 268 .933

2 Earl Boykins, DEN 82 12.4 3.4 3.7 279 303 .921

3 P. Stojakovic, SAC 66 20.1 3.8 4.2 253 275 .920

4 D. Stoudamire, POR 81 15.8 2.2 2.5 182 199 .915

5 C. Billups, DET 80 16.5 4.3 4.8 343 382 .898

6 Steve Nash, PHO 75 15.5 2.8 3.2 211 238 .887

7 Luke Ridnour, SEA 82 10.0 1.9 2.2 159 180 .883

8 Ray Allen, SEA 78 23.9 4.8 5.5 378 428 .883

9 A. Croshere, IND 73 8.9 3.1 3.5 226 256 .883

10 Danny Fortson, SEA 62 7.5 3.7 4.2 227 258 .880

11 B. Cardinal, MEM 58 9.0 2.7 3.1 158 181 .873

12 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 78 26.1 7.9 9.1 615 708 .869

13 S. Abdur-Rahim, POR 54 16.8 4.1 4.7 220 254 .866

14 Sam Cassell, MIN 59 13.5 2.3 2.6 134 155 .865

15 P.J. Brown, NOR 82 10.8 2.6 3.0 210 243 .864

16 Ben Gordon, CHI 82 15.1 2.8 3.3 233 270 .863

17 Caron Butler, LAL 77 15.5 3.6 4.1 275 319 .862

18 Derek Fisher, GSW 74 11.9 2.4 2.7 175 203 .862

19 Tyronn Lue, ATL/HOU 70 11.2 2.0 2.4 142 165 .861

20 R. Hamilton, DET 76 18.7 4.8 5.6 368 429 .858

21 David Wesley, NOR/HOU 80 11.9 2.0 2.4 162 189 .857

22 C. Maggette, LAC 66 22.2 8.5 10.0 563 657 .857

23 W. Szczerbiak, MIN 81 15.5 3.2 3.8 260 304 .855

24 Michael Redd, MIL 75 23.0 4.9 5.8 369 432 .854

25 Jalen Rose, TOR 81 18.5 4.1 4.8 333 390 .854

Most of the guys on that list that aren't outstanding outside shooters are inside players and the others are pretty good (like Fisher, Rose, etc.)

Here is what draft express says about his shooting:

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The most developed part of Marvin’s offensive game right now is his almost flawless jumpshot. It’s a very natural shot and he shows great form for his size. His shot looks almost effortless and each shot is nearly identical with his elbow tucked in, arms straight, good follow-through and height. His form looks the same whether it’s a mid-range jumper or a 3 pointer, and he releases it fairly quick. His great leg strength really helps him because he less likely to shoot tired jumpers. Marvin has shown he is a great FT shooter (nearly 85% on almost 5 attempts per game). He is calm and poised at the line and is always confident in the shot.

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I think you are jumping on Marvin because of your Marty obsession.

[hotboyj]

I am seriously starting to fall in love with Ukic's game and after that he gainded 30 lbs, he is seriously a candidate for us picking #2.

I am also in love with Paul's game since he has that Rasheed Wallace type of determination to win. He is the leader that this team is looking for. He isn't soft-spoken and will probably get many technical fouls his first season. Which is good since it shows you at least care a little about the game.

Just because I hate Bogut and Marvin doesn't mean it is because I think Marty would be a better choice. It means there are people in the draft that could do more good for the team than those two.

Can eveyrone please get off my back just because I don't like the next Collier in Bogut and the next wannabe Jermaine Oneal in Marvin(minus the defense and 3 inches).

I must be saying something right, since I was the one who said Bynum would be a great pick up a long long time ago, because he is clutch, along with the guy by the name of Lucas Tischer. It just so happens that both are being worked out for the Hawks. And isn't Ukic working out on draft day? You can bithc and moan on how my posts are radical and highly unlikely, but so is the draft. Come on if everyone agreed with everyone this forum would be crap.

You need that crazy sob who won't shut up telling you about this guy who everyone thinks will be a bust.

By the way the the physical of all the players are up on draftcity.com. Marty gets as high off the ground as Jarrett Jack.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Martynas isn't worthy of our second overall pick, so please just stop.

I could see if the Hawks were trading down, and they could consider Martynas with another selection, but at second? Not going to happen. Billy Knight has had scouts watching Martynas for awhile now, but I don't think it's likely for him to use the second pick on him.

[Admin]

He may turn out to be a great player someday, but we are not the 2003 Detroit Pistons who have the luxury of drafting a kid and waiting 3 years on him before he can even get on the court. We need to draft somebody that can come in and contribute from the get go and who can make his teammates better. IMO that narrows it down to ONLY Bogut, Paul, and Deron. Sure there will be other good players, but only those 3 have the ability to be impact players from day 1 that will make their teammates better.

[Lascar78]

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Can eveyrone please get off my back just because I don't like the next Collier in Bogut and the next wannabe Jermaine Oneal in Marvin(minus the defense and 3 inches).

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Yes the next Shawn Bradley is much , much better than the next Jermaine O'Neal.

Also both these comparisons are way off. Bogut has nothing in common with collier other than skin color. Collier is a soft shooter. Bogut is tough, likes to play in the post, get boards, is a better passer etc...

Man oh man do I hope Martynas stays in the draft this year so we can all see how he will do compared to Bogut this year.

You might have an aneurysm

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You need that crazy sob who won't shut up telling you about this guy who everyone thinks will be a bust.

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I agree. And we also need to tell him how crazy he is, and we need to give him a hard time for the next 3 years when Martynas isn't doing a damn thing. But it'll be fun...

[Nicholasp27]

actually, we won't see how well marty does next year, as he'll be buried on the bench...he isn't close to ready to play...he falls down constantly in 2v2...even if he improves at a rate of 2 more players on the court per year, he'll still be falling down in 5v5 in 3 years...so 4 years minimum for him to stay upright in an nba game...another 3-4 to be able to show anything...

but in 2015, he may just lead a team to a championship!!!

[Lascar78]

yeah, I know. Like I said, "we need to give him a hard time for the next 3 years when Martynas isn't doing a damn thing. But it'll be fun...". Bogut will be getting ROY while Martynas MAYBE gets 4-5 minutes per game depending on where he goes