We need Bogut or Paul

[Packfill]

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Seriously, we won 13 games last year..I would hope with the number 2 pick we could select someone that could start for us..If we draft Marvin , barring a trade, he is likely to be playing behind Chillz, Smoove,, and Al..Then we still have our glaring holes at the 1 and 5 spot..The free agent point guard group is less than compelling, and the decent free agent centers are all restricted..And.......Beside all that, look at the playoffs this year..Its all about point guards and big men..Even if Marvin comes in and turns into a great sf, when is the last time a great sf carried his team to a championship?Larry Bird?..High scoring small forwards don't win you anything in the NBA..A good point guard is much more likely to lead his team to a championship than a great 3..And one more thing, the Sam Bowie over Jordan example is wore out, every GM that has ever drafted a player has passed over players that were better than the ones he drafted..

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This is a great post. Jordan and Bird are the only wing players in the past 25 years to lead a team to a championship, every other time it has been a big man (Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Wallace x2) or point guard (Magic, Issiah).

Comparing Marvin to Jordan and Bird is crazy, they are two of the 10 best players of all time. There is absolutely no guarantee that Marvin amounts to anything more then Tim Thomas. There is no guarantee he becomes a better player then Josh Smith.

[Packfill]

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Deron, or somebody else? You guys all seem to think that Marvin is the only potential superstar and yet the only knock on the guy most scouts say is the most complete PG to come out since Jason Kidd is that he is only 6'1". Sorry but I dont believe that Marvin has anymore chance to become a superstar than does Chris Paul. Not only that but Paul will actually start from day 1 and he will make our other 2 youngsters (hell probably even Al) better from day 1 as well. I am sure that most everyone remembers what Kidd did for the Nets, basically elevating the games of Jefferson and Kenyon to elite status. He made the Nets a great team. Or how about what Steve Nash did for Dallas and now Phoenix. He took both of those teams and made them MUCH better. Am I saying that Paul will do that for us next year? Of course not. We wont get that good overnight, but he will make our other young investments better, unlike what Marvin can do for them. I just dont see how you can pass that up unless its for Bogut who I dont think will be there when we pick.

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Another great post.

I could give a rats ass which player has superstar potential. Give me the guy that is going to make the team better in the long run. A good point guard or good center is the best way to do that.

[Diesel]

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If the Hawks draft Marvin, they are not duplicating a position because Marvin and Josh both have the ability to play both forward spots as well as a little shooting guard.

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Right now..

We have: Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Boris Diaw, D. Smith, Al Harrington.

All of these guys are 6'9 -6'7. All play SF... And we have spread out these 5 guys across 3 positions. And you want to bring in yet another guy who fits that same description.

And we have no PG...

The other important thing that I have heard nobody here talk about is this...

When was the last time a Sf lead his team passed the 2nd round of the playoffs?

The impact players are normally Cs and PGs.. Not Sfs.

[mrhonline]

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We have: Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Boris Diaw, D. Smith, Al Harrington.

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1. Diaw would be shipped out for a shot a one of the second-tier PG's.

2. Donta isn't good enough to merit an issue here.

3. Whether we like it or not, Childress is the team's SG. That's where he'll get his minutes.

So, that leaves Smith, Harrington, and Williams to share ~100 minutes/game. Harrington will get 36+ min/game, Smith has earned at least 32+, so Marvin will have ~30/game. IMO, that's enough for a 19 year old rookie.

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The impact players are normally Cs and PGs.. Not Sfs.

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Now, this is a much better argument. Add to that the fact that Marvin doesn't really offer any skills that Harrington or Smith don't already give the team, and I think you have a problem.

[Diesel]

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So, that leaves Smith, Harrington, and Williams to share ~100 minutes/game. Harrington will get 36+ min/game, Smith has earned at least 32+, so Marvin will have ~30/game. IMO, that's enough for a 19 year old rookie.

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First off.. Those three are not the only ones manning the Forward spots. We will definitely need somebody who is big enough to bang to play PF sometimes... Either Collier or somebody like Googs will be there to bang bigger PFs.

Second.. Why would you want to put us in a position to derail Smooves development as the Star of this team.

Like it or not Smoove is the Face of the Hawks right now. Al will be our PF.. But Smoove could have Sf all to himself, like Nique used to have... That's not to be shared with another marquee player. That's to be shared with a guy like Donta (who you say shouldn't be considered).. Well, Donta is good enough to back up. Secondly. Diaw's still here.... And so is Al. I don't think BK is planning on doing any trades of personnell he has. Especially not Al. Al name comes up in future talk...

I just think giving a Potential Superstar at Sf and a Potential Superstar at PG, we should take the PG.

[Nicholasp27]

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There's always going to be that fear of being PTL passing over Jordan.

However, look at a team like LAC. IN one draft I recall.. They already had Brand. They selected Ely, WIlcox. They missed out on guys like Prince.

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so you got to use the bowie example for a reason to not take bogut, but now that it fits your side better, you get to discredit the bowie example?

[Nicholasp27]

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Add to that the fact that Marvin doesn't really offer any skills that Harrington or Smith don't already give the team, and I think you have a problem.

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so is it al or smoove that has a great jump shot?

[TheRedStripes]

I have never been for getting Chris Paul but with the latest measurements, I would actually rather have him than Marvin Williams...

I don't think Marvin is as athletic as some people are saying he is, and he is definiely a SF so why on earth would the hawks take him? Smoove is the SF of the future...we dont need 2 SF's, actually we do but we got Diaw, Donta, Al, and even Chill can play SF so i think we have that position filled...

[Nicholasp27]

u take marvin if u aren't resigning al to 10mil/year contract this october...

u take marvin because he has a better jumper and better post moves than smoove...they could make a deadly forward duo...add a defensive center like daly/chandler next to them

ukic/chill/marvin/smoove/daly

now, i'd LOVE to have a superstar center more than a superstar forward, but we need a superstar PERIOD...and if bogut is gone, there is no superstar center available...

[TheRedStripes]

I have seen Marvin play on more than one occasion and im just not convinced he is going to be a superstar, If he was a can't miss definite supersar player like Lebron or something then yeah I would want him even with all the SF's on the team, but I just dont see it, i think he will be good, but I see him as being a player that will be a borderline allstar, a player who makes the allstar game a few times but never as a starter...not a superstar...he just isn't as athletic as he gets credit for in the scouting reports...

[mrhonline]

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so is it al or smoove that has a great jump shot?

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And if you put him in the post, you negate that...

If you play him at SF, you lose Smith's athleticism.

If you play him at PF, you lose the only real veteran presence on the team.

The problem isn't minutes, it's "skill overlap."

[mrhonline]

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First off.. Those three are not the only ones manning the Forward spots. We will definitely need somebody who is big enough to bang to play PF sometimes... Either Collier or somebody like Googs will be there to bang bigger PFs.

Second.. Why would you want to put us in a position to derail Smooves development as the Star of this team.

Like it or not Smoove is the Face of the Hawks right now. Al will be our PF.. But Smoove could have Sf all to himself, like Nique used to have... That's not to be shared with another marquee player. That's to be shared with a guy like Donta (who you say shouldn't be considered).. Well, Donta is good enough to back up. Secondly. Diaw's still here.... And so is Al. I don't think BK is planning on doing any trades of personnell he has. Especially not Al. Al name comes up in future talk...

I just think giving a Potential Superstar at Sf and a Potential Superstar at PG, we should take the PG.

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Diesel, I actually agree with nearly all of this. I'm just suggesting that IF Marvin is drafted, there's room for him in the rotation, for better or for worse.

With each passing day, I'm starting to think that either Paul or Deron would be better options. If Marvin could play PF, I think I would go ahead and draft him. But his height and skill set make him a much better SF candidate in my mind.

[Lascar78]

I agree that Marvin is a SF due to his skills, but I could see Smoove easily moving to the PF position.

[Diesel]

No.

If Bogut is there I #2, I say we take him...

Because when he turns out to be a flop.... I will be saying I told you so from now until never. In fact, I betcha, you'll pack up and won't come back to Hawksquawk to endure the shame of the Bogut campaign.

[Diesel]

I would like to move Al for something like a lottery pick... (minnesotas)..

BUT

I don't think BK is thinking that way. I think he sees our future of having: CHillz, Smoove, and Al.

I don't like the fact that Al is a weak rebounder. I don't like the fact that Al has moments where he is a black hole. I don't like the fact that Al will get an extension on his contract tht won't be 10 million but will be closer to 8 million per.

However, when I reason it.

Can we find another 6'9 250 lb PF who can do what Al does for less than 8 per...

Hell, we can talk about all these draft pick guys but the truth is that none of them have proven anything. All of them have question marks. Al is a sure thing.... Right now, I rank Al higher than Boozer or Kmart (for the Hawks) and they make loads of cash in comparison.

So.. When it's all said and done, we get a PG who can run the offense and a defensive C from FAcy..

Wouldn't it be nice:

D. Will or Paul/Chill/Smoove/Al/Dally...

[TheRedStripes]

I couldn't see Smoove moving to the PF spot " easily" it may be possible, but he would have to change his game considerably, right now he has a complete lack of a low post game, he gets all his points either on alley oops, put back dunks and toward the end of the season jumpshots, you can't just wake up one morning and understand how to play in the low post

also i think moving him to the PF spot might take away from some of his strengths, he is a great shot blocker but he is a shotblocker like Kirilenko, he doesn't have the strength to handle most NBA power forwards down low they will just out muscle him, I see him as a very similar player to Kirilenko actually, he has very good size for SF and that is his natural position so i see no reason to switch him to PF where he would have to learn to play differently and it will make him slightly undersized for that position

[Lascar78]

I disagree on him not having the strength to handle PF's. He doesn't have the knowledge in my eyes. He has the physical tools. He is still very raw on both ends of the floor. All he really knows how to do is dunk, block shots (especially on a help play), and is starting to get a jumper. To me he needs as much work to develop into a great SF as he would to develop into a great PF. Yes he would have a hard time guarding a Duncan (to say the least), but he could also get around him off the dribble. So who knows. Certainly Bogut would be the best fit in my opinion

[Diesel]

I think you take away from Smoove's advantages by putting him at PF (now)... Once he bulks up, I think he may have to play PF... If that happens. But for now, he's going to be an allstar type Sf becuase of this:

1. Speed.

2. Strength

3. Shot Blocking.

4. Rebounding.

The real problem is we have a team full of SFs and we insist on calling them something else. Position does matter. Especially when you lack a good PG.

[Nicholasp27]

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No.

If Bogut is there I #2, I say we take him...

Because when he turns out to be a flop.... I will be saying I told you so from now until never. In fact, I betcha, you'll pack up and won't come back to Hawksquawk to endure the shame of the Bogut campaign.

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u see, not everyone is afraid of saying "damn, i [censored] up" and moving on...not everyone has to run and hide cause they made a mistake or were wrong...

[Diesel]

Damn.. How could you even concede that you might be wrong about Bogut? As much as you hug his nuts, you're supposed to say something about your prophetic knowledge about him being the best in this draft based on what everybody is saying... Whatever happened to the He's the next Brad Daugherty...???

Nick.

I'm disappointed!