Bogut has a 33 inch vertical!!!!

[AHF]

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Further, for those of you that are comparing Boguts numbers to Simien and May..who cares?? Those guys are mid first round picks. When you talk about top 3 picks, you should be talking about guys with stud qualities. Bogut has none. he has size and thats it. So many busts have come in the top 5 when people draft for size over talent and ability.

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Bogut had 13 reps.

Amare Stoudemire had 12 reps.

[NickJYD]

i guess SA shouldn't have taken Duncan, the person who bogut most closely resembles in offensive game (but better passing)...

he is a strong dude that doesn't get banged around in the post (see martynas)

Bogut is being compared to Duncan? By who, you? Duncan was a given as the top pick in the draft. Bogut has not even clearly beaten out a guy that didnt even start in college. In addition, Duncan played against the best college competition and dominated. It doesnt bother you that Bogut played in a mediocre conference and his first coach really isnt even a fan of his game?

[NickJYD]

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Further, for those of you that are comparing Boguts numbers to Simien and May..who cares?? Those guys are mid first round picks. When you talk about top 3 picks, you should be talking about guys with stud qualities. Bogut has none. he has size and thats it. So many busts have come in the top 5 when people draft for size over talent and ability.

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Bogut had 13 reps.

Amare Stoudemire had 12 reps.

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Well thats great, but Amare has two things that Bogut doesnt. First is amazing athleticism. Second is tremedous upside. Who cares if you can only do 12 reps if you can go over and around people?

[Nicholasp27]

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i guess SA shouldn't have taken Duncan, the person who bogut most closely resembles in offensive game (but better passing)...

he is a strong dude that doesn't get banged around in the post (see martynas)

Bogut is being compared to Duncan? By who, you? Duncan was a given as the top pick in the draft. Bogut has not even clearly beaten out a guy that didnt even start in college. In addition, Duncan played against the best college competition and dominated. It doesnt bother you that Bogut played in a mediocre conference and his first coach really isnt even a fan of his game?

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on offense, MANY people, including scouts and press, have compared him as closest to duncan...not on defense, but offense

[Nicholasp27]

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Well thats great, but Amare has two things that Bogut doesnt. First is amazing athleticism. Second is tremedous upside. Who cares if you can only do 12 reps if you can go over and around people?

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the same can be said about bogut's creativity and bball iq, or his passing....none of which amare have...or his rebounding skills...

who cares if he can only do 13 reps if he can pass out of double teams to the open man or if he can pull down 12 boards a game or if he can use his skills/iq to take high percentage shots?

[Lascar78]

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Bogut is being compared to Duncan? By who, you? Duncan was a given as the top pick in the draft. Bogut has not even clearly beaten out a guy that didnt even start in college. In addition, Duncan played against the best college competition and dominated. It doesnt bother you that Bogut played in a mediocre conference and his first coach really isnt even a fan of his game?

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Duncan waited till his 4th year. If you let Bogut run the show for 2 more years in college basketball, he would be a lock for the #1 just like TD. Hell he would be next year, and he basically is already this year.

And the conference he played in has no effect on how good a player he will be. If Duncan played in a sh!tty conference in college, I would still draft him. If his ex-coach was acting like an @ss, starting false rumors, I would still draft him.

I didn't see TD hold his own in the olympics after just one year of college.

You can evaluate a player who has also carried his team in the NCAA and done fine in the olympics a year ago. If you know how good a player he is, where he played is irrelevant. I haven't seen Paul hold his own against NBA players. I didn't see Paul in the sweet 16 despite better teammates.

Bogut is the best player available and that's that.

[NickJYD]

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Bogut is being compared to Duncan? By who, you? Duncan was a given as the top pick in the draft. Bogut has not even clearly beaten out a guy that didnt even start in college. In addition, Duncan played against the best college competition and dominated. It doesnt bother you that Bogut played in a mediocre conference and his first coach really isnt even a fan of his game?

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Duncan waited till his 4th year. If you let Bogut run the show for 2 more years in college basketball, he would be a lock for the #1 just like TD. Hell he would be next year, and he basically is already this year.

And the conference he played in has no effect on how good a player he will be. If Duncan played in a sh!tty conference in college, I would still draft him. If his ex-coach was acting like an @ss, starting false rumors, I would still draft him.

I didn't see TD hold his own in the olympics after just one year of college.

You can evaluate a player who has also carried his team in the NCAA and done fine in the olympics a year ago. If you know how good a player he is, where he played is irrelevant. I haven't seen Paul hold his own against NBA players. I didn't see Paul in the sweet 16 despite better teammates.

Bogut is the best player available and that's that.

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Your argument is ridiculous. Paul has gone head to head with the best pg's in the game on a nightly basis. he played against Felton, Jack, Ewing and Gilchrist and fared very well. You are trying to tell me that because Bogut played against a bunch of idiots in some mid major conference that I shouldnt be worried? Well, you are wrong. Paul has proven himself against the best. Bogut hasnt even proven himself to his coach, and he isnt considered the best talent in the draft. A guy that was the 6th man for UNC is. When you draft players, you have to think of upside, just like we did with Josh Smith, and Minny did with KG and the Lakers when they traded for Kobe. Taking guys like Bogut is a waste. We need a stud, and at best, he'll turn out to be a solid pro. Paul, Marvin and possibly either Deron and Felton would all be better picks for us. This is a great year for drafting a pg and a good year for getting a free agent big man. Bogut doesnt fit our scheme and hes only getting love because hes 7 feet tall.

[mrhonline]

After the strides he made between his freshman and sophomore seasons, why do you assume that he has reached his potential?

Because he's tall?

[Lascar78]

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Your argument is ridiculous. Paul has gone head to head with the best pg's in the game on a nightly basis. he played against Felton, Jack, Ewing and Gilchrist and fared very well. You are trying to tell me that because Bogut played against a bunch of idiots in some mid major conference that I shouldnt be worried? Well, you are wrong. Paul has proven himself against the best.

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First of all, Paul proved himself against some of the best PGs in the NCAA. Bogut proved himself a year ago against some of the best players in the world at the olympics. Can you get that through your litte skull?

Besides, Paul also proved that he got owned when he played tall strong guards. Jarrett Jack completely owned him when they played. Paul looked lost out there.

Also, you shouldn't like Bogut because of who Bogut played, but you shouldn't be worried about Bogut because of his skills. His competition is borderline irrelevant. Besides, there is only one area in which they both competed, the NCAA tourney. Paul's team without him is miles ahead of Bogut's, and Bogut carried his team further than Bogut. Bogut also didn't puch anyone in the balls.

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Bogut hasnt even proven himself to his coach

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Listen to his coach and you'll find out he does think he should go #1. Listen to his disgruntled first year coach who left the school and is apparently has a bitter taste in his mouth, and you'll hear otherwise. That's like calling someone's ex-wife and asking if he's a good guy. Majerus is clearly bitter for some reason, to the point of making up fake diseases. That should tell you how reliable his opinion is.

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and he isnt considered the best talent in the draft. A guy that was the 6th man for UNC is.

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Bogut will probably be taken before Marvin. Paul will not. So what does that say about your boy Paul that everyone agrees that he belongs after a 6th man? He must be reeeaaaallly bad then

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When you draft players, you have to think of upside, just like we did with Josh Smith, and Minny did with KG and the Lakers when they traded for Kobe. Taking guys like Bogut is a waste.

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Tim Duncan would like a word with you. There is no reason to believe that Marvin necessarily has more potential than Marvin. Marvin might be the next Darius Miles, while Bogut might be the next Duncan. So what's your point?

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We need a stud, and at best, he'll turn out to be a solid pro. Paul, Marvin and possibly either Deron and Felton would all be better picks for us.

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Well yeah if we take your opinion as fact then you'll be right. Unfortunately, most agree Bogut will be a stud, not just solid. That's why he's a top 2 pick. What part of his game is holding him back from being a stud?

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This is a great year for drafting a pg and a good year for getting a free agent big man. Bogut doesnt fit our scheme and hes only getting love because hes 7 feet tall.

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Please tell me all the FA big men that we are going to get? Chandler will be matched, Dalembert will be matched. Kwame, Swift and Curry will all get overpaid drastically and are all underachievers. You don't pass on the chance for your franchise center just because there happen to be 4-5 good PGs in a draft. There is a reason none of those PG's is projected to go #1 or #2

[DominiqueWilkins]

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of course this bumps the odds that mil will take bogut up a few percentage points

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My hopes are starting to fade by every minute.

[Lascar78]

I blame John Anderson

[Nicholasp27]

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Taking guys like Bogut is a waste. We need a stud, and at best, he'll turn out to be a solid pro.

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why, at best, is he solid?

his ceiling offensively is duncan with a better pass...he prolly won't ever reach that, but he definitely has the chance "at best" to be more than a solid pro.

in fact, most everyone considers his floor to be divac/bmiller, which is already solid...maybe even above solid, at least for center...

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Bogut doesnt fit our scheme and hes only getting love because hes 7 feet tall.

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so not for his rebounding, his passing, his efficient offense, his bball iq, his heart/desire, his vast improvement in one year, his history of strong competition?

and why doesn't he fit our scheme? he can rebound, block some shots and pass...sacramento was one blueprint for bk (but better defense hopefully), and bmiller/divac/cwebb's passing were key to their great offense...

[ATLJA316]

i blame John Anderson too....

what an ass...

[Lascar78]

Maybe if you burn that lucky charm of yours, our luck will change and the bucks will take Marvin. Then I will praise you and show up with "John Anderson, 3:16" signs at home games

[Weez]

please please please do your homework before referencing this 'debacle' again. Look at Bowie's stats as a rookie, what he did IN THE LEAGUE (not even in college) before his knees went. It's impressive.

Had Jordan not retired and Hakeem not won back to back championships (or any?), would it then also be known as the Hakeem and Bowie debacle?

Also, it's probably been mentioned in this thread (I know it has in others), the difference in bench press abilities for taller/longer guys vs. those shorter ones. It's impressive for Deron...but less damning than you allude to for Bogut.

[cyman3]

id hate to be BOWIE. Hes only known as the guy who was picked before MJ. All he has to say at parties is "hey, im the guy who was picked before MJ! at that time, i was better than MJ himself!!!!" lol

but honestly, comparing JORDAN with anyone is not fair. the dood is a freak. Same concept, comparing LeBron James with any high school rookie is extremely unfair. Lebron is also a freak.

Jordan is the reason

1) Bowie is popular

2) Karl Malone, Stockton and other Jazz members dont have rings

3) Craig Ehlo is on ESPN replay, every night.

[Buzzard]

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Well thats great, but Amare has two things that Bogut doesnt. First is amazing athleticism. Second is tremedous upside. Who cares if you can only do 12 reps if you can go over and around people?

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I guess you do since the way you started this anti-Bogut debate is with a reference that Bogut is weak due to him only getting in 13 reps. Sorta shuts you up when you realize 13 reps is better than one of the fastest risng big men in the game had.

The only site I have been to that said this hurts his draft prospect is Chris Ford (BTW he will be wrong because Bogut is going 1 or 2), everywhere else was neutral, no harm caused at all. These include Hoopshype and DraftCity.

Bogut did not have bad measurements, his heigth and reach were exactly what was expected. Which is good because most big men's stats are overblown a little in college. His weight and vertical jump were better than what most believed. And his bench was right in line with everyone tested who is considered a pf or center.

Why in the world do you think Bogut cannot go over and around most NBA centers that will be guarding him? Do you even watch the game and know of the talent levels of centers in this league? In three years he will be a 7' 0" fully grown talent playing against 6' 9" talented players or 6' 10" no talent players like the centers we have right now.

Bogut is a 7'0" extremely skilled and talented player by all accounts. If we do not get him, we will get another talented player and Bogut will be a good player for someone else. To knock his skills and strength are ridiculous.

[Weez]

yep. But Bowie did some pretty amazing things himself before the knees went out... try this on for size (wait, nevermind, I can't find the top NBA rookies of all time list that ESPN put out several months ago...but if you can find it and want to post it, please do~ it's worth the read).

Regardless, he made the all-rookie team, averaged 10.8, 8.8, 2.7 blk and 2.8 ast/2.3 turnovers in 29mpg as a rookie playing alongside clyde the glide and Jim Paxson

'“I would have taken Olajuwon if I was No. 1. I don’t know how many teams were in the league then, 26, but everyone would have taken Olajuwon. I would have taken Jordan at No. 2 because I wasn’t a huge Sam Bowie fan and he had a broken leg. But by being No. 3, we fell into Jordan by circumstance. It’s like Phoenix fell into that kid Stoudemire at No. 9 last year when two of the three best rookies went No. 9 and No. 10.”'

now, would I take MJ over Bowie every day and twice on sunday, yeah. but they did have drexler...who if you remember wasn't that bad of a player (he's in the top 50 I think), and doing so in an age where there was a definite 'skill set difference' between the sg and sf (which is not so much the case now).

[ATLJA316]

SO.....if the bucks take marvin... and we get Bogut...

do i have your word that you'll have a john anderson 3:16 sign @ a home game?!?

...(opener?!?)

gives me something more to look foward to if we get bogut

[cyman3]

who is JOHN ANDERSON?