Here is the insider with the chicago combine numbe

[Lascar78]

Not sure if this has been posted in one of the other forums, but...

There are three ways to help your draft stock at the Chicago predraft camp.

First, you can actually play well in the event, like Luther Head and David Lee did, and convince scouts that you're first-round material.

Second, you can stand against a wall, spread your arms out and possibly measure longer/bigger than team originally thought you were. Guys like Chris Paul and Ike Diogu did that this year.

Finally, you can go through the NBA draft combine and prove to scouts that you're quicker, stronger, or can jump higher than your original scouting report.

Insider exclusively obtained a list of the Chicago pre-draft camp combine results on Wednesday. The combine measures four key areas: strength (bench press repetitions of 185 pounds), vertical jump, lane agility (how fast a player moves laterally around the key), and speed (¾-court sprint). Then the league adds those up and gives an athletic ranking to each player in the draft.

The overall winner this year was Oklahoma State's Joey Graham, who blew away the competition. Second was Georgia Tech's Will Bynum. Other top players with good scores included Rashad McCants (3rd overall), Luther Head (6th), David Lee (11th), Marvin Williams (15th), Chris Paul (16th) and Raymond Felton (18th).

There was one major surprise in the top 20 -- Illinois point guard Deron Williams finished 10th, ahead of both Paul and Felton. Part of that had to do with strength; Williams bench pressed 185 pounds 15 times, which is really great for a point guard. However, that wasn't the full story.

There have been major questions about Williams' lateral quickness, but he actually tested quicker than Paul in the lane agility drill and finished .03 seconds behind Paul in the sprint. Williams has lost about 15 pounds and is down to 7½ percent body fat, which obviously has helped his athleticism.

The bottom end of the spectrum included mostly international players and lumbering big men. Georgia Tech center Luke Schensher finished at the bottom of the list (75th). Ersan Ilyasova (74th) and Martynas Andriuskevicius (73rd) also tested poorly.

The shock on the low end was high school star Monta Ellis, who finished 70th. His strength, vertical jump and lateral quickness were all on the low end of the scale. That could be devastating to his draft chances.

Other disappointments included Andrew Bogut (61st), Martell Webster (60th), Rudy Fernandez (57th), Antoine Wright (55th), Jarrett Jack (54th) and Francisco Garcia (51st).

Luther Head ranked as the most athletic point guard in camp. Will Bynum took the award for the 2-guards. Joey Graham won for 3s, David Lee for 4s and Marcin Gortat for centers.

Ellis was the worst ranked guard in camp at either position. Ilyasova finished last among small forwards while Taylor Coppenrath was last for power forwards and Luke Schenscher finished at the bottom of the heap for centers.

On the individual test front, Will Bynum recorded the highest one-step vertical jump at 40½ inches. Gerald Green and Ronnie Price tied for second at 39 inches, followed by Luther Head at 38½. Chris Paul and Hakim Warrick rounded out the top-five, each launching a 38-inch leap.

Luke Schensher recorded the worst vertical jump, at 26½ inches. He was followed by Taylor Coppenrath and Jason Klotz (27 inches) and Martynas Andriuskevicius and Wayne Simien (27½ inches).

Joey Graham won the strength test, bench pressing 185 pounds an impressive 26 times. Ike Diogu finished second with 21 reps, followed by Chuck Hayes with 20. Channing Frye helped himself shed the soft label a bit by hoisting the bar 19 times. Eric Williams, Marcin Gortat and David Simon all finished tied for fifth with 18 reps.

As happens every year, several top players were unable or barely able to do this drill. Monta Ellis, Rudy Fernandez, Martynas Andriuskevicius, Brandon Rush and Daryl Dorsey got a zero for the drill. Luke Schensher and Travis Diener could only lift the bar once.

In the lane agility drill, Michigan State's Alan Anderson recorded the fastest time at 10.32 seconds. Rashad McCants was second at 10.39. John Lucas ranked third, Rudy Fernandez fourth and Raymond Felton fifth.

Jason Klotz, Ellis Myles and Deji Akindele finished at the bottom of the heap. Monta Ellis and Andrew Bogut also recorded terrible times of above 12 seconds.

In the ¾-court sprint, Will Bynum recorded the fastest time at 3 seconds. Joey Graham, Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants and John Lucas were also in the top five. Marvin Williams and Julius Hodge finished in the top 10.

Jason Klotz earns the awarded as the slowest guy in camp with a 3.68 seconds time. Ersan Ilyasova, Andrew Bogut, D'or Fischer and Torin Francis rounded out the five slowest guys in camp.

Here's a look at how 30 of the top draft prospects performed in each event. Note that several top prospects, including Fran Vazquez, Johan Petro, Nate Robinson, Ryan Gomes, Brandon Bass, Matt Walsh and Linas Kleiza, did not participate in the testing.

Name, Bench press, vertical jump, Lane Agility, ¾-court sprint and Overall rank.

Joey Graham/26/36"/10.62/3.05/1

Rashad McCants/15/34½/10.39/3.11/3

Luther Head/14/38½"/11.12/3.21/7

Deron Williams/15/35"/10.83/3.25/10

David Lee/14/32½"/10.80/3.19/11

Marvin Williams/12/35"/11.11/3.17/15

Chris Paul/10/38½"/11.09/3.22/16

Raymond Felton/6/33½"/10.50/3.06/18

Ronny Turiaf/15/33"/11.50/3.23/21

Gerald Green/7/39"/11.2/3.21/24

Chris Taft/14/33"/11.26/3.27/25

Julius Hodge/14/29"/10.89/3.18/26

Sean May/12/33"/11.04/3.29/27

Danny Granger/10/34"/10.84/3.34/31

Channing Frye/19/31"/11.60/3.38/33

Dwayne Jones/15/31½"/11.87/3.25/38

Ike Diogu/21/31"/11.94/3.45/39

Charlie Villanueva/11/31"/10.86/3.3/42

Wayne Simien/11/27½"/11.05/3.35/49

Francisco Garcia/5/31½"/10.63/3.33/51

Jarrett Jack/5/28½"/10.87/3.24/54

Antoine Wright/12/29½"/11.45/3.41/55

Rudy Fernandez/0/35½"/10.48/3.33/56

Martell Webster/7/30½"/11.39/3.39/59

Andrew Bogut/13/33½"/12.06/3½1/60

Hakim Warrick/11/38"/N/A/3.22/61

Monta Ellis/0/31½"/12.13/3.31/70

Martynas Andriuskevicius/0/27½"/11.94/3.42/73

Ersan Ilyasova/2/30"/11.59/3½6/74

So who was helped and hurt by the testing?

WINNERS

Deron Williams -- Scouts have been questioning his quickness and athleticism all year. Now that he's lost some of that body fat, that no longer seems to be an issue. He's not as fast as Raymond Felton and doesn't jump as high as Chris Paul, but he's clearly in the same league athletically.

Joey Graham -- It doesn't come as a huge surprise that Graham came out on top. If you've seen him play much, you know he's an unbelievable athlete. Still, finishing on top of the heap should guarantee he gets selected in the lottery.

Will Bynum -- He was the last guy invited to Chicago and played extremely well, especially on the defensive end. A few scouts believe he might be a better prospect than Nate Robinson (the guy who tested as the top athlete in Chicago last year). I doubt he gets selected ahead of Nate, but he's definitely in the second-round mix now.

Rashad McCants -- There are still questions about his attitude, but it's rare to find such a great shooter who can also test off the charts athletically (just look at Martell Webster and Antoine Wright). Someone's going to ignore the baggage and take him in the late lottery to mid-first round.

Channing Frye -- He's stronger and more athletic than scouts have given him credit. The 19 reps on the bench press will turn a lot of heads.

David Lee -- Athletically, he tested as the top power forward in the draft. His lane agility scores are what really stand out. Lee has very quick feet, which will really help him defensively in the pros. Combine that with his strong play in Chicago and Lee seems like he's another step closer to securing a spot in the first round.

Marcin Gortat -- He had just a so-so camp, but he tested out as the most athletic center in the draft. He could be off the board in the first 10 picks of the second round if he decides to stay in the draft.

Sean May -- His numbers don't jump out at you, but he showed a better vertical jump and more agility than his main competition: Ike Diogu, Wayne Simien and Chris Taft. Maybe that will balance out the fact that he measured smaller than all of them.

LOSERS

Andrew Bogut -- He's been trying to dispel the "great white stiff" myth for the past few weeks. This doesn't help. While his vertical leap is actually above average for a guy his size, his lateral quickness and sprinting speed were just awful. That will hurt him defensively.

Wayne Simien -- Simien finished well below the other top big men in almost every area. Especially shocking is his lack of explosion jumping off one foot. His one-step vertical was only a half inch more than his standing vertical. That was, by far, the worst in the camp.

Antoine Wright -- Scouts have been warning that Wright looks more athletic than he actually is. At the combine, he was significantly below Francisco Garcia, a guy almost every scout in the league has knocked for his lack of athleticism. Had he not benched an impressive 12 reps, he would have landed close to the bottom. That's going to come back to haunt Wright.

Jarrett Jack -- He has great size and toughness, but athletically, he tested well behind most of the point guards in this draft. With Roko Ukic making a strong push, it could cause him to slip.

The High Schoolers -- Monta Ellis, Martell Webster and Brandon Rush all tested terribly. That's partly because of their age and partly because guys like Ellis and Rush might not have been training for these particular tests the way some players do.

We knew that Webster was just an average athlete but Ellis was a huge shock. For an undersized 2-guard to be successful in the League, he has to be long, quick and explosive. Ellis is none of the above. There's been talk that Minnesota is flirting with taking him at No. 14. It's pretty hard to justify that after seeing these numbers.

The Internationals -- They always struggle every year. With the exception of Gortat, they all were near the bottom of the heap. Most of them have never lifted weights before (which hurts their bench press numbers) and most are bigs lacking any real explosion or quickness.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

So it seems like Deron is the one who helped himself the most. Frye probably also. Bogut is a mixed bag I guess with a bigger vert than some expected, but mixed results overall. Maybe that'll help Milwaukee take Marvin? I don't know.

I'm most surprised at Jack's results, I thought he'd do better

LOL at Martynas doing better than only Schenscher and 1 other guy...

As usual, let the frenzy begin where people forget about skill and judge players on combine numbers. On your marks, get set, GO!

[Packfill]

For a team pick anywhere outside the top 10, Raymond Felton has to be a strong consideration.

[Weez]

what exactly is all of mccants' baggage?

[Packfill]

I think he has some "coach-ability" and "maturity" issues, but I don't know the specifics. Terrific talent though.

[TheDude]

that helps me with Deron..heck Paul is supposed to be ultra quick and you've got Deron up there....heck, maybe there are possibilties of trading down to get him..who knows

[Lascar78]

Yeah my worries about Deron went way down when I first heard of him dropping alot of weight. That was a real issue with him.

Now, I'm not sure which PG I'd take. I suppose Deron because I don't really see Paul's distributor skills.

[KB21]

Deron has a clear size advantage over Chris Paul, and his tests show that he may have an athletic advantage over Chris Paul as well. I think Deron really helped himself a lot. His performance in these drills dispell any notions of him lacking athleticism, and he has shown good strength for a player of his size.

[Nicholasp27]

i rank those 3 deron, felton, paul

deron is on the same level athletically, but is taller, stronger and a better defender

felton is the fastest and is a great distributor

paul is the shortest, isn't the best distributor, isn't the fastest, isn't the most athletic, isn't the strongest, isn't the best defender...he may have a slight edge in shooting/personal offense

but i'd rather have kidd/nash/parker/bibby than marbury/francis

[KB21]

Felton is the shortest and weakest of the bunch. Felton was only 6'0" with shoes on, where Paul was 6'1 with shoes on. Felton also did 6 reps to Paul's 10 reps. Paul's vertical was also much better than Felton's.

Right now, I think it is a clear delineation between Paul/Williams and Felton. It's tough to decide who is better between Paul and Williams, IMO. Deron is stronger, bigger, and has good lateral quickness, whereas Chris is more explosive (as his vertical shows) and is faster in a straight line.

Then, you have to list their basketball skills. Paul is the better offensive player, where Deron is the better defensive player. Chris Paul would improve the Hawks perimeter shooting and be a playmaker on offense. Deron Williams will be a playmaker on offense, but his shooting is more streaky. However, Deron instantly improves the Hawks perimeter defense.

[Nicholasp27]

but felton is the better playmaker

paul may be taller and stronger, but he's not the tallest or strongest

what i said was that deron and felton have things that they are clearly the best at...whereas paul is more middle-of-the-pack in each area amongst the three

[TheDude]

to me it's deron vs paul..as much as we down paul, he can be a star in this league..felton has a good chance but not as much as the other two...i still go with deron though.

[Packfill]

Quote:

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but felton is the better playmaker

paul may be taller and stronger, but he's not the tallest or strongest

what i said was that deron and felton have things that they are clearly the best at...whereas paul is more middle-of-the-pack in each area amongst the three

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That is crazy. Paul is the best shooter, can jump higher then the others, is the youngest and is an excellent distributer.

For the record, all three timed faster in the shuttle and sprint then TJ Ford and TJ clearly was not lacking in speed.

Paul would have averaged a lot more assists per game if he had May (with his soft hands) receiving passes then Eric Williams (who has stone hands).

[OGRat]

I don't put too much value on these numbers, because what a person does in a game time situation is totally different from what they will do for this test.

Also, it may just reflect that some players have been preparing for these exact tests, and thus, tested better than others. This does show ambition though.

Like anything else, take the negative results with a grain of salt. I've done things in games I could never do if I were just practicing.

[KB21]

I think he has a dribble that is too high, and I believe that this will lead to turnovers once he is in the NBA. I've seen Felton get out of control with his dribble quite often. I don't think there is much of a drop off between the top two and Felton, but I do believe there is a drop off there.

[Wretch]

The thing I question with Felton is the quality of players that he had around him. I mean LOOK at the Tarheels being taken, and where they are being taken, in this draft. So, Felton, while definitely talented, certainly had guys to help him look good.

There were no questions about Wake Forest. It was Chris Paul or bust. Ironically, considering the talent that UNC had...look at how Chris Paul took it to them. He lit them up and was 9 for 9 at the FT line with 6 rebounds. He's a penetrator, he's athletic, and gifted with the pass - and just how did he all of a sudden become NOT as good of a distributer while averaging almost as many assists as Felton, slightly more than Deron, and boasting a better assist/turnover ratio than both of them...(Link, Link)

What's more, Paul is the best FT shooter of the 3 - and he TOOK more than both of them (187) - more than Felton (134) TWICE as many as Deron (96); which indicates that, for all his size/strength/speed "disadvantage" that he's a better at getting to the line. Topping it off, he also averaged slightly more rebounds than both of them...

(...)

I like the other guys, but I REALLY like Chris Paul and what he did for his team. If BK takes Williams, then I'll just have to trust his judgement on that...but I'm hoping that we pick Chris Paul. He can push the ball on the break as good as or better than Felton and he can control the half-court. He is every bit the playmaker that Deron is, just not as tall (by about 2 inches).

As a matter of fact, that's all that people are saying is wrong with him... But he's not that much smaller than the best scoring PGs in the NBA.

[Diesel]

Dude Wake up.. And I do mean Wake.

Without Paul, Wake is no better than Clemson. They are like a NIT hopeful. What Paul has done all year is make the players around him better. Period. Eric Williams becomes a beast when Paul is on the floor. Gray gets better.

Felton is fast, But I think he's more a derivative of the system. The system that Roy put together was to Felton's advantage. They play a non-stop run and gun game. Does that make Felton a better play maker.. Not really. He gets a lot of assists because they run and catch people out of position. 2ndly, Felton had a ton of good players surrounding him. 2 of the guys that played with Felton can be top 10 lottery picks. Eric Williams might be 1st round but likely second rounder. So is anybody else from Waker other than Paul. Lastly back to the system. The system disguised a lot of the shortcoming of Felton. If any player is akin to JT.. It's definitely Felton. JT also played in an uptempo offense that really didn't require him to do much because everything was preplanned. AND when JT got to the pros, he found that his blow by speed wasn't good for much because everybody was fast and he found that he would have to learn to play a halfcourt set. He struggled. It's 7 years later and I doubt that JT can play in the halfcourt. This is what I see looking at Felton. I think he'd be good on a running team with another primary ball handler, but he can't do what Paul and Deron can.

Deron is everything that Paul is but Bigger with better one on one defense. Paul however, definitely has the 'it' going for him. If you all had watched him this season, i don't think you'd be trying to say that he's not going to be better than.... He's one of the top players in this draft and if he goes to the right team, will be ROY!

[Nicholasp27]

felton will have chill/smoove/al/?, so he'll have talent like at unc...

and didn't unc lose to a bad team the one game felton was out?

not to mention paul's groin punch that killed his team...

felton isn't like jt because he's a real pg, unlike jt

and felton doesn't need another ball handler...if anyone, that's deron who had dee by his side

and yes, i said that paul is a better scorer than felton/deron...but i don't care as much about how much a pg scores (marbury/francis) as i do how well he distributes (kidd/nash)...

plus, i'm scared paul will be often injured, like tj ford or terrell brandon

like i said, IMO, i take deron then felton then paul

[AHF]

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plus, i'm scared paul will be often injured, like tj ford or terrell brandon

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Why are you concerned about the injury risk for Paul but not Felton? Paul is taller and stronger than Felton. Felton is the one who had ankle and wrist injuries last season (can anyone tell me if Paul had injury problems, I don't remember any).

I don't get that.

[Nicholasp27]

i didn't know that felton had those injuries

well deron won't be available at 5, so either bk likes him enough to get him over marvin, or i think we shouldn't trade down...i'd rather not spend our only #2 ever on paul/felton when ukic/jack are available (and gilchrist, tho he's a head case) later on...not to mention diener in the 2nd round, who was the best distributor at camp...could be the duhon of the 2nd round

stay put at 2, or trade up to 1 (please!)

trade to get ukic/jack

but don't trade #31, cause too many good players left then