Is Marvin that far ahead of Deron?

[Blunt91]

I know everyone is saying Marvin will pretty much be the #2pick but how much more talented if any is he than Deron Williams? Deron Williams stock seems to be skyrocketing this week. There are alot of teams that want to draft him or try and move up(Orlando Magic) in order to acquire him. This tells me that Deron Williams must be a special player. The thing is, is he as special as Marvin Williams? Will Deron Williams have as much impact or more at his position than Marvin Williams as a Small Forward/PowerFoward? I wish Billy Knight would just trade down with Portland and pickup an extra 2ndround pick. We pick Deron at #3, Trade for the 25hthpick and get Andray Blatche. 31stpick Randolph Morris and 35thpick(Via portland) draft Nate Robinson.

[Admin]

Well thats the big question. I wish that someone could definitively say that Marvin is or is not that much better of a prospect. For me I would rather have an old school PG that can lead my team into battle than a forward if they are both superstar potential players. Thats why I would take Deron, but thats just based on my personal preference and what I saw from the both of them this past season. It certainly seems that right now they are about equal as players, but Marvin is younger and could potential have a much higher ceiling.

[tmac13]

This draft is really four potential superstars deep..You have a center, a tweener forward, and 2 point guards..We all know a star bigman can lead you to a championship, we all know a star pointguard can lead you to a championship, somebody please tell me when the last time a tweener forward led a team anywhere?..Especially when we already have so many tweener forwards..Also, the more I read about some of the mid 1st round guys like Bynum or Ukic, the more I think the best player in this draft 3 years from now may be someone taken between 10 and 20..The more I read about Bynum, this guy has Shaq size and Shaq type athletic skills..If he developes, he is the man of this draft. If if if if..

[Weez]

Nique...or Bird...

[tmac13]

Bird was a GREAT shooter, and not a tweener..He was a sf all the way..Nique?..Championship?..I must be missing something..

[thescout10]

That is what is going to decide who they select.They should be doing that now.You can't grade a player based on film and with marvin williams you don't know how skilled he is.When are the Hawks bringing in the players?

[Sage11]

If we are asking the question, you have your answer. If Marvin was that far ahead of Deron, there would not even be a question. But there is. I am impressed with his talent, but it seems we get potential stars with his size and at his position every year.

Now that we know that we can not address our NEED at center beccause Mil will choose Andrew, I pray we do the SMART thing and pick up a potential star point guard in Deron.

[Lascar78]

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If we are asking the question, you have your answer. If Marvin was that far ahead of Deron, there would not even be a question. But there is.

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That's simply not true. If Marvin clearly is far ahead of Deron, you still have to wonder if we want all 4 of our talented players to be tall small forwards, or if you want to pick up the less talented but better fitting Deron. I think there is a clear separation of talent, i.e. there's a clear top 2, and a clear next 2. But that still doesn't answer the question of whether we take BPA or draft for need given our awkward situation

[Diesel]

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That's simply not true. If Marvin clearly is far ahead of Deron, you still have to wonder if we want all 4 of our talented players to be tall small forwards, or if you want to pick up the less talented but better fitting Deron.

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No Sir.

Deron is not a less talented player. IN fact, can you find any weaknesses in his game? Any questions about his game?

However, there are several questions about Marvin...

Can he play defense? - He should be able to, but hell, so should Al! The answer is you don't know. IN the UNC system, you can't say definitively if any of them can play good man to man defense. Because their style of play really doesn't allow you to be caught up man to man much.

Can he handle pressure? He should be able to... But as the rounds of the NCAA tourney went on, so did his composure on the court.

Again... Tell me the difference between Marvin Williams and Tim Thomas. If you are honest, you will admit that all you really know about Williams is based on HOPE.. Not on actually talent. You hope that he can make the transition. You hope that he becomes a good defender. YOu hope that he doesn't break under pressure. HOPE.

However, you know a lot more about Deron. YOu know that he's a team leader. YOU know that he's a good defender. YOU know that he's a top PURE PG... YOU know all these things so quit LYING and Making up stuff about his abilities..

Truth be known, the only reason he's not higher in Mocks is because it's not fashionable to draft a PG that high... Well, I hope that we break fashion.. because Deron and Paul are both special players!

[Lascar78]

AND AGAIN YOU CAN'T READ. I SAID " IF MARVIN CLEARLY IS FAR AHEAD OF DERON..." . I NEVER SAID THAT THIS WAS THE CASE. IT WAS A HYPOTHETICAL. TAKE A READING CLASS

[Diesel]

Because I read where you said...

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I think there is a clear separation of talent, i.e. there's a clear top 2, and a clear next 2.

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This kinda made clear your opinion and it made clear that previous statement...

[Lascar78]

I think Bogut and Marvin are the top 2. I have no idea if Marvin is far ahead of Deron because I haven't seen enough of Marvin. The point I was making is that even if he is FAR ahead, you'd still have to consider Deron because of need.

You really must see the world in black and white because you never seem to understand any of the finer points.

The whole point of this thread was that most of us know Marvin is ahead of Deron, but we don't know if he's far enough ahead of him for us to forgo drafting for need.

Do I need to post every post twice, one version for hawksquawk, and one version for Diesel to be able to understand where everything is spelled out in detail twice?

[swolehawk2]

You obviously did not watch enough Heel basketball...often times Marvin was sent into games to calm erratic play by Jawad and Mccants....he has the composure and maturity of a 30 year old...he was probably the best man defender on the team besides Manual.....and at 18 he is strong enough to rebound and finish inside against bigger people...he can handle the basketball... has a back to the basket game....and has three point range...there are no holes in his game...I don't know if he would be a superstar but he definately has more potential to be a superstar than Deron.

I must admit... I have seen him play pick up games...so I am probably a little biased.

[Weez]

you asked, "somebody please tell me when the last time a tweener forward led a team anywhere?.."

anywhere is not the same place as the championship, though you did mention championship earlier in the post.

Do you truly believe Bird to be a 'sf'? care to poll the boston fans?

Nique in my estimation is the epitomy of 'sf'...but Bird...played a lot in the post too, most would consider him a pf.

[Diesel]

Maybe you are biased... Maybe more than a Little...

Because I watched too many heel games. Williams is a good athlete and he has a good shot. Back to the basket game??? I wouldn't put a lot of confidence in that.

However, Saying he has more potential than Deron? Just as a matter of position..

A Good PG is much better for a team than a good Sf. This is easily proven. Phoenix would miss Nash.. Whereas if Shawn Marion missed games, it wouldn't matter as much.

Back to the idea of potential of Deron though...

Deron is certainly the only pure PG that has come out of college basketball since Andre' Miller. He's the best Pure PG to come out since Kidd. And because of his great ability to play man on man defense, he may be better than Kidd. You think MWill has more potential that that??

I say MWill has a longer climb to greatness than Deron, but I would not say that MWill has more potential... Especially not for a team (and NOT JUST THE HAWKS)..

[tmac13]

Bird played beside McHale(one of the greatest pf ever) and Parish..He was a sf..Go poll a few Boston fans and see what they say.

[swolehawk2]

Man...I like Deron's game...and would not cry if he were a Hawk...but Deron is no where near Kidd ...I have seen nothing to convince me he can push the basketball and blow by people.....nothing.....have u? He seems more closer to a young Mark Jackson than Kidd.

[Diesel]

Speedwise, he has now been measured as fast as Paul..

I have made the comparison to Jackson myself.

I think that he's a better defender than Jackson or Kidd...and he sees the floor just as well as either. He's a leader. I have read the reports of him working out with Jordan and with Majerus... But guys point to Deron as being the future... I have no doubts about it, he will probably eclipse Kidd.