More proof that Josh was ranked ahead of Marvin

[Admin]

in his high school class. Check this out from NBADraft.net

http://nbadraft.net/highschool.htm

2004 - Juniors

1.Josh Smith 6-9 210 SF McEachern (Powder Spring, GA)

2.Dwight Howard 6-10 225 PF Southwest Atlanta Christian (Atlanta, GA)

3.Al Jefferson 6-9 265 PF Prentiss (Prentiss, MS)

4.LeMarcus Aldridge 6-11 215 PF/C Seagoville (Dallas, TX) *Texas

5.Shaun Livingston 6-6 175 PG Peoria Central (Peoria, IL)

6.Daniel Gibson 6-2 180 PG Jesse Jones (Houston, TX)

7.Sebastian Telfair 5-11 170 PG Lincoln (Brooklyn, NY)

8.Marvin Williams 6-9 205 SF Bremerton (Bremerton, WA)

[emorystar]

Why should we believe that list? Dwight Howard and Shaun Livingston are clearly the best from that class. Any list that doesn't have them as one and two is not worth looking at.

[Admin]

that list was from 2003. All of those players were juniors at the time and Josh Smith was the best of the bunch.

[Traceman]

Dwight Howard was CLEARLY the highest ranked player of that class as a senior and Livingston and Rudy Gay were certainly higher on this list as well.

[mrhonline]

It's not really relevant to that list but Sean May did say that Marvin would have been a top10 pick last year.

FWIW, six of those high school players should have gone top10.

[Diesel]

Josh was still ahead of Marvin.

coming out of HS, Josh was highly favored and it was not just because of his athletic ability. Look at Josh... He's a manchild. He plays defense (something Marvin Haven't shown).. and for all KB's plugin.. Believe me, I have watched my share of UNC games, Marvin is not blowing passed many players with his first step and he's not a great passer, and his ball handling is not as "money in the bank" as these guys would have you believe. Marvin is a finisher. That puts him in the same category as Smoove. Marvin has a nice Stroke.. That puts him on the same street with Tim Thomas.

Just like Thomas, he's supposed to be able to use his outside shooting to create a lane for him to drive... BUT Just like Thomas, in his college years, we didn't see that enough...

Lastly.. Pressure games speaks alot.

Marvin never showed up in big pressure games. He may have showed up against Iowa St. when nobody cared the outcome. He may have showed up against their first round opponent in the tourney. But in the big games, where did he go??

They had to rely on Jawad Williams and Sean May to carry the load. I say that because big games determine what a player will be...

For example..

Chris Webber vs. UNC. The infamous Time out. Right then, Webber showed that he was a player that didn't want the pressure... He's good for 3.5 quarters but in the last part of the game, he disappears. That has been him... It was seen back in that championship game.

Look at Williams again. Pressure's on.. Where is he??

I'd rather have Paul or Williams.. 2 big time PGs who step up to the pressure and can carry a team!!

[Traceman]

He's NOWHERE NEAR the athlete that Smoove is but he is better in nearly every aspect of the game. That doesn't mean that he always will be better at virtually everything but he should continue to get better just as Smoove will.

I think best case, Marvin will be a more athletic Antoine Walker with a better J and that is pretty darn good. I think the KG comparisons are ridiculous because KG is so much longer. Worst case, I think Marvin is somewhere between Tim Thomas and Jamaal Mashburn.

[swolehawk2]

" Marvin is a finisher. That puts him in the same category as Smoove. Marvin has a nice Stroke.. That puts him on the same street with Tim Thomas."

Put that together and you have a darn good player...a Forward that can finish ....shoot...has pretty good ball handling 6-8 - 6-9 and will grow into that body & wing spand and is mature and guess what...he doesn't solely rely on his talent...he works hard as hell...and hates to lose.

Soemthing to think about....I like Paul...I am not sold on Deron...because I definately have not seen him penetrate or get by people.....

I guess if I decide I need a point I would go Paul...if I wanted the best basketball player....I would probably fo Marvin....but it is close.

[Buzzard]

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I'd rather have Paul or Williams.. 2 big time PGs who step up to the pressure and can carry a team!!

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Ahhhh the hype goes on.....I will be glad when this draft is over so we can begin hyping all those free agent PG's and PF/Centers.

I guess when Jack and Tech shut Paul down that was not a big game? As hard as you look Diesel there is not a player alive that has not had a bad game against a good opponent. So please with all the hype crap.

We all know this is a four player draft so anyone hyping or berating any of them is really a waste of web site space! All four of them by all accounts should make good pros.

[Admin]

would have been higher, at least not in my book. As much as I love the freakish athleticism that Smooth has, I bet he would have actually been a better player today if he just had a little bit less of it and would have had to work just a little harder at other aspects of his game.

[GoDawgs21]

Didnt do well under pressure? Diesel you have finally lost it, and I mean completly lost it. Can you answer me one question? Who put a tip in to clinch the National Title this year? So final minute of the national title game no pressure uh. Why did Roy play him the final 5 minutes of every UNC game? Only because he hit 90% of his free thows. Missed setting a NCAA record by tenths. So a PF that makes his free thows, gee could have used one of those last year. Pressure look who hit the last 4 free throws against Duke your biggest rival to seal the game. Yep the guy you say cant handle pressure.

[Diesel]

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I think best case, Marvin will be a more athletic Antoine Walker with a better J and that is pretty darn good.

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I read that exact same assessment somewhere else and here's the problem I have with it. When Walker was at UK... There was a lot that you could see in his game. When Walker was at UK, he had Delk, Anderson, Mercer, Epps, McCarty, and Pope.. They even had Turner, Nazr, and Sheppard (Damn that team was stacked)... With all that, I think Walker led that team in assists. Or at least I know he had more assists than Delk... Epps may have had maybe 3 or 4 more assists than Walker. But Walker was a Pure Point Forward in the mold of Mash, Pipp, and Toni... Marvin is not that. He was not the three point bomber that we know today. He knew how to make his move by putting the ball on the floor and either score or pass. I know Delk, McCarty is thankful that he had that part of his game because he helped build their careers.

But when you look at Marvin.. He didn't put the ball on the floor like a Walker. He didn't rack up the amount of assists like Walker. I think what they have in common is tht they both were thin & Strong, they both were Tweeners, and they both left college with the crowd.

In other words, until Marvin shows that he can take over a game, be the passer/point forward type and do all the little things.. then he shouldn't be mentioned with Walker.

[Diesel]

Marvin Williams is possibly the second coming of Tim Thomas. Yes, he can finish (around the basket).. Yes, he can shoot (when left alone outside).. But Can he use his dribble to make him very dangerous. The answer is Haven't seen it yet. Can he use his pass to create for his teammates.. Haven't seen it yet.

Let me see if I can come up with a list of guys who went pro with the same attributes but lacked that disconnect...

1. Tim Thomas. Before you boo.. Look at Thomas. He was definitely a guy who could be the finisher. Definitely showed good skills his first year with AI. Coming out of HS, he was ranked Higher than Kobe. Mainly because he had a stroke from outside and he could finish inside. Unlike Marvin though, he learned to be a Passer. The problem with Thomas was not his Basketball IQ (What the hell is that?) Unless you're Bird or Magic, there's no need to talk about a BB IQ.. Until you manage to get more than 6 apg from a position other than PG, don't come quoting me about a BB IQ... Some people take liberties in their evaluations and don't know what the hell they are talking about. Thomas' problem was that he learned to settle for the jump shot rather than worked on his drive. This is a problem that is seen with a lot of guys like this.

2. Keith Van Horn. Like Marvin and Thomas.. A jump shooting forward who could finish. Like Thomas, KVH also learned to settle.

3. Walt "the Wizard". Just like Marvin, Walt came out of college with a stroke. He was 6'8.. similar to Marvin also. During Walt's years, he was pushed to be more of a SG than a Sf. His inside game suffered.. But coming out of Maryland he was a finisher too.

4. Al Harrington. Harrington doesn't have the mindset to shoot from outside because he's not a good outside shooter... But their games other than that are similar.. I believe Al is a better passer and have learned to be that playing with the Pacers.

But there is no connection yet between his outside shooting and his low post scoring. He hasn't shown it in college. Which is why the James Worthy comparison is so WRONG.. Worthy was taking jokers off the dribble at UNC. MJordan says that he learned how to move with the ball by getting torn asunder by Worthy in practice. Marvin Williams haven't gotten to that point yet. Neither has he developed the eye for passing. Until he gets those things together, he's another Tim Thomas or KVH...

[Diesel]

It's true... GTech did shut Paul down in Atlanta. He only got 8 points and 7 assists in the OT thriller and he missed the last shot. He did steal the ball and got the score to take the game into overtime though.. Everybody has a bad game or even a team that they don't do well against. But with him having his worse day, his team still almost won that game on the road vs. a contender.

And let's not talk about what happened in NC when they played! Downey and Paul put on a show in the second Half. Paul showed that when his jumper isn't working, he can take opponents off the dribble and get to the line...

My point is simply this... we know more about how Paul and Deron handles the pressure of big games than we do about Marvin. Hype.. NO. This iS FACT! We know much more about these guys. Hype is saying Marvin is a good passer and ball handler when really he doesn't pass that much and he doesn't dribble unless he's on the break by himself. That's hype.

Fact is when you have 2 guys who have played in big games and Carried their teams and without them, their teams would be NIT material at best and saying that they step up in big games. because they do...