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Really great read about Bogut/Marvin/Bucks

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After reading this article, I cant see the Bucks passing up on Bogut.

Two days of workouts, one big decisionBy Andy Katz

ESPN.com

MILWAUKEE – The Bucks didn't have to do all this.

They own the No. 1 overall pick, meaning they are the ones in control. They get to decide who plays for them next season.

Yet, here we are, fresh off a glitzy arena tour, sitting in a Hummer limo, heading to a fancy steak place downtown.

Here we are as the Bucks try to sell the franchise and the city of Milwaukee to two college kids over three days that will decide the future of the franchise.

* * *

The conference room sits above the Cousins Center court in St. Francis, a suburban Milwaukee enclave along the water.

It is here, in this conference room, with the backdrop of a draft board that has every team listed and all potential top picks by position, where the Bucks will decide the future of their franchise.

The Bucks' brass has completed mock drafts, leaving only the team's spot at No. 1 and Atlanta's at No. 2 open. For the Bucks, there are two players that will fill those slots – Utah sophomore center Andrew Bogut, the college basketball player of the year, and North Carolina reserve freshman forward Marvin Williams, who could become the NBA's next phenom.

Which one should the Bucks choose? When the players, first Williams and then Bogut, arrived on consecutive days over Father's Day weekend, each had his own idea.

"I've got more experience than anybody else in the draft," Bogut said. "I've played in the Olympics, won a gold medal for my country in the world junior championships and was the MVP of the tournament. I'm just a competitor. The teams that I play for win basketball games, that's the bottom line."

"I think everyone realizes I'm young and after a few years in the league, there's no telling how good I can be," Williams said. "I feel if they chose me, I'd definitely work out for them."

On his way to meeting Williams for dinner Saturday night at Mo's Steak House, Bucks general manager Larry Harris put the importance of the top pick into perspective.

"This pick puts us back in contention to be back in the playoffs like we were two years ago," Harris said. "It brings back that frenzy to Milwaukee."

On the ride to pick up Williams, Harris explained his process of determining this pick.

"It's a two-man race, and it's not a jump shot that [either player is] going to make [in the workouts] that would determine it. It's the total package," Harris said. "There's been a lot of time and energy put into this pick. It started a few years ago. It didn't just happen on May 24 [the night of the draft lottery, where Milwaukee beat the odds to land the No. 1 pick]."

Harris said scout Scott Roth, director of player personnel Dave Babcock, assistant general manager Dan Kohl and scout Chris Gilmartin would help him make the decision. He added the coaches would have input, but he didn't want to muddy the issue, emphasizing the pick ultimately would rest on his shoulders.

"[The coaches] don't follow college basketball. It's not what they do. They coach games," said Harris, four days before he fired head coach Terry Porter. "We are the organization. Everybody puts in their input, but I have to make the final decision. It's not an ego thing, but I have the responsibility of drafting players. It's a democracy, but at the end of the day it will be me."

Owner and team president, Sen. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., will have to rubber-stamp the move, but he entrusts Harris with the call.

* * *

Basically, from the time they beat the odds (with the league's sixth-worst record) to land the No. 1 overall pick, the Bucks crafted a weekend that would rival most free-agent recruitments and dwarf college enticements.

On Saturday, Harris took Williams on a tour of the Bradley Center. Williams, wearing jeans and a white T-shirt, went into the locker room, where he tried on a Bucks jersey emblazoned with his name.

When they walked out to the Bradley Center floor, a video montage was ready and a sign flashed along the video message board by the upper deck that said, "Marvin Williams Welcome to Milwaukee."

Bogut hopes his skills and wardrobe suit the Bucks.

Williams had a scheduled a workout in Atlanta on June 21-22, but his attorney, Jim Tanner, upon seeing the level of the Bucks' recruitment, turned to Babcock and said, "We can cancel it if you want."

Afterward, the marketing team surprised Williams by singing "Happy Birthday" to him a day early. That scene would be repeated later that evening at the restaurant, with Harris leading the Bucks' brass in singing and presenting Williams with a cake.

"It felt exactly like college," Williams said, who added he currently drives a Hummer. "In the arena, people meet me at the arena, take me out to dinner, made me a cake. I had a good time."

Sunday, though, was all business.

Moments before the workout, Williams said, "I have to show them what I can do … all my abilities – perimeter skills, post-up skills – and hopefully they like it."

Coming off their worst season in nine years, the Bucks' No. 1 priority is to re-sign free agent guard Michael Redd. Williams arrived in Milwaukee saying he could be the perfect complement. The Bucks had to see for themselves.

The Bucks put Williams through a strenuous workout, during which Williams became fatigued and had to stop to get stretched.

"There [were] a couple shooting drills I hadn't done," Williams said. "There was countdown to 15, make one, points drop. If you miss, they go up. Got a little bit tired, but I tried to focus and finished up strong."

The Bucks' staff convened in the conference room after the workout to break down Williams' game, character and potential.

Harris: "He showed more skills in his time here than [when] we had seen him 10 or 15 times this season. That's my perception of it."

Babcock: "He's got the talent to be a go-to scorer. Obviously, he wasn't last year, it might not be next year, it might be two years down the road. But he'll be at that level sometime.

Roth: "If you're picking someone that high, you better have leadership qualities and vocal ability to lead others. Right now, [he's] quiet. He's going to have progress in his role as a leader if he becomes a great player."

* * *

Bogut was given similar star treatment Sunday night.

The Bucks picked him up in a Hummer limo and took him to Giovanni's, a lower-key Italian restaurant, where a TV was wheeled in so they could watch Game 5 of the NBA Finals.

When it was Bogut's turn for a tour, he got similar jersey treatment in the locker room but a little different out on the court, where the Bucks darkened the whole arena and had his spotlit jersey draped over two folding chairs. His video montage was easier to see in the dark.

"I don't need the red carpets and all that attention," Bogut, who was dressed smartly in a pin-striped suit, said. "I just like to lay low. That's not me. I would have been happy taking a cab. But I really appreciate the effort they put forward to show me that they, they're really interested. You know if I'm here, I'll be treated very well as a player."

On Monday, Bogut (like Williams the day before) was going through his very first NBA workout. Bogut, though, was more accustomed than Williams to this kind of scrutiny because of his international experience.

Moments before the workout, Bogut said, "I never know what to expect, but I'm just going to take it positively. If I don't make my first couple of shots, just stay with it. It's not like it's the end of the world if I miss my first couple shots, these guys know I can play."

On the court, Bogut dispelled some knocks on his athleticism by dribbling the length of the court without fumbling. He also went through the hour-long workout without a water break.

Bogut is hardly soft, and he plays the post with force and tenacity. He did tire a bit near the end, leading to a few missed free throws, and some doubts afterward.

Bogut: "I just can't hit free throws."

Babcock: "You know what? That's the least of your worries."

Bogut: "No, it's not."

Babcock: "You know why? Because that stuff you'll improve on. Just takes a little work. What do you think the issue is?"

Bogut: "It's mental, man.

Babcock: "No, it's not all mental, it's not all mental."

Soon after that exchange, Senator Kohl approached.

Kohl: "Good job, Andrew."

Bogut: "Thanks, hope you enjoyed the workout.

Kohl: "You're good."

Babcock: "Did a good job, didn't he, Senator?"

Kohl: "You're very good."

Bogut: "Did you close your eyes during my free throws?"

Kohl: "Well, you're going to be 75 percent. Right now, you're 68 or 70. You'll be all right. You did a good job."

An hour later, the Bucks met again in the conference room to discuss what they had seen.

Harris: "Once you saw him in the post, that's where he's naturally gifted. His right and left hand [are] unbelievable."

Roth: The biggest thing he could improve in is his shooting. I think he shot it better two years ago in international ball than he has the last couple of years."

Harris: All he wants to do is play basketball. That's all he cares to do. He'll likely get a nice car and have a home and hopefully have a girlfriend or two in the process, but I'm telling you there's no doubt the guy is going to be an NBA player for a long time."

Bogut went through the normal psychological and physical tests most draft picks go through when they visit teams. He also had to go through an eye test after reports surfaced that he had a degenerative eye disorder. But according to Bogut's agent, David Bauman, and the Bucks, Bogut simply has a rough cornea, a common issue that forces him to wear a special contact lens.

Earlier on Monday, before Bogut went to a Boys and Girls Club in Milwaukee, he made sure the Bucks knew he wanted to play in Milwaukee. At a private breakfast with Kohl, he gave the Bucks' owner a résumé and a promotional packet.

"He can see on paper all of the things that I've accomplished in my life at such a young age," Bogut said. "I'd like to have Milwaukee [be] a part of that, to have some more little slots on that résumé, hopefully NBA playoffs, NBA championship and so on."

How did Kohl leave it as to what Milwaukee might do?

"They're not going to give me a final word, which would be stupid on their part [to do]," Bogut said. "You know, he just said 'You were a great kid, hopefully it works out for you or Marvin, and we'll see what happens June 28.' "

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Admin Newbie

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and we take Marvin to trade him

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Roth: "If you're picking someone that high, you better have leadership qualities and vocal ability to lead others. Right now, [he's] quiet. He's going to have progress in his role as a leader if he becomes a great player."

That scares me a lot. Its the same thing that we have been talking about. Does he have the passion for the game? Is winning that important to him? I know he busts his ass on the court, but does he care enough to make himself a superstar? Can he be a leader?

Even he doesnt know how good he will be. Shouldnt a potentail superstar say that he will be the best player in the NBA someday, or shouldnt he at least give some sort of sign that he believes he is going to be great?

Oh and whats the deal, he is 19 and already drives a Hummer? It seems like he has had everything handed to him so far and that also worries me.

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Lascar78 Newbie

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That scares me a lot. Its the same thing that we have been talking about. Does he have the passion for the game? Is winning that important to him? I know he busts his ass on the court, but does he care enough to make himself a superstar? Can he be a leader?

Even he doesnt know how good he will be. Shouldnt a potentail superstar say that he will be the best player in the NBA someday, or shouldnt he at least give some sort of sign that he believes he is going to be great?

He's got the Tim Duncan personality, who will lead by example and not by voice. Seems to me that it's working for TD. Are you actually complaining that he's not blowing smoke up your @ss?

Quote:

Oh and whats the deal, he is 19 and already drives a Hummer? It seems like he has had everything handed to him so far and that also worries me.

There was an article that said that he'd been sleeping on someone's couch since the end of spring and bumming rides from people, and his agent (I believe) said he'd get him a car. He got him a hummer. Williams has no choice, had to take the hummer, but has said it is too flashy for him, and he returned the keys when he got to NY. He said he won't be buying one, he wants something low key.

Why are you guys trying so hard to make this guy look bad?

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Lascar78 Newbie

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from AP

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His first goal is to buy a house for his mother and two younger brothers — who live in a Seattle-area apartment — followed by helping her have surgery for back problems.

As for himself?

"My whole life, I looked forward to taking care of my family," he said. "I'm not really a material guy. I don't need three cars and two houses in two states. One house is fine. One car is fine. One TV is fine."

More than anything, he said, he's just ready for the big day to arrive.

"I'm nervous to find out where I'll end up," he said. "We're all counting the days."

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Lascar78 Newbie

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Ok I found it it was the washington post article:

UNC's M. Williams Stays Low-Key for A High Draft Pick

By Michael Lee

Washington Post Staff Writer

Monday, June 27, 2005; Page E01

Marvin Williams needed a car. Projected to go either first or second in tomorrow's NBA draft, the freshman standout from North Carolina's national championship team had places to go and things to do while training this summer in Chapel Hill. He didn't want to rely on his own two sneakers or the kindness of friends.

Williams e-mailed his attorney, Jim Tanner, and within a few days, had a silver Hummer H2 with black leather interior. It was the right car for a teenager about to become a multimillionaire. It was the wrong car for Williams, a small-town kid from Bremerton, Wash., who usually chooses sensibility over showing off.

Williams test-drove his flashy ride for the past month but recently handed back the keys before heading to New York for the draft. To the 19-year-old, the oversized sport-utility vehicle -- the essential vehicle in many NBA driveways -- was like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly, effective but unnecessary. "Marvin is real low-key. He said he liked it, but he probably won't buy one," his father, Marvin Sr., said in a recent phone interview.

Williams's unassuming nature is not an act. How many sure-fire lottery picks delay NBA riches to attend college because they feel the need to grow up? How many McDonald's all-Americans have no problem coming off the bench if it means it will help the team win? And how many certain top-five picks sleep on a futon in a teammate's apartment while preparing for the draft?

Marvin Williams can raise his hand for all three. This is the same Williams who sported a "Lion King" backpack through four years of high school, read "Harry Potter" books on AAU basketball road trips and got downright giddy when he discovered his AAU practices were moved to the early morning and wouldn't conflict with "Rugrats."

"I'll forever be a kid, no question, no matter where I'm at. I'll still watch cartoons. I still like to have fun. That's just me," said Williams, a 6-foot-9, 230-pound forward who chose to prepare for the draft in Chapel Hill instead of following his teammates to more lively outposts such as Chicago and Los Angeles.

"I think he's motivated by success, motivated by winning and he's highly competitive, but those are things that will remain on the court. I think off the court, he's going to remain who he is, which is a very humble, mannerly, family-oriented person," said Tanner, a partner at Williams & Connolly, the same firm which represents other too-good-to-be-true players Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, Ray Allen and Shane Battier.

If the Milwaukee Bucks take Utah center Andrew Bogut with the No. 1 pick, Williams isn't expected to slip past the Atlanta Hawks at No. 2. Some may wonder how a player who didn't start for his college team and averaged a mere 11.3 points per game could become arguably the best player in the draft. But in a draft where youth is coveted and potential is intriguing, Williams is exactly what the NBA wants -- a player oozing in upside and the unknown.

"You're not looking at a finished product when you look at Marvin Williams," said Hawks General Manager Billy Knight, who will gladly pounce on Williams if the Bucks pass on him. "You're looking at a young prospect who is going to get better and improve. I think he's got a ways to go. He just turned 19. Sure, we need a point [guard], we need a center, but we need basketball players, period. I like talented players. I'm still taking the best player that I can find."

Pro scouts have been aware of Williams's talent since he was in high school, when some thought he was the best player in a class that included Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson and Josh Smith. Williams was given assurances that he would be a top-10 pick last year after averaging 28.7 points, 15.5 rebounds, 5 blocks and 5 assists at Bremerton High School but opted for North Carolina. "Going to the pros out of high school was something I wasn't so keen on," he said recently. "It helped; I got better as a basketball player and a person. I've improved in a lot of areas."

In one season at North Carolina, Williams backed up Sean May, another projected lottery pick, and Jawad Williams but he was always on the court when the game mattered. Williams showcased his skills in his first two games of the NCAA tournament, when he scored 40 points with 23 rebounds. He displayed his length and athleticism when he rose above everyone on the floor for the left-handed, game-winning tip of Rashad McCants's miss late in the Tar Heels' 75-70 win against Illinois in the national championship game.

"I think Marvin's got superstar potential," one Eastern Conference executive said on condition of anonymity. "If you look at his stats, if he had played as much as the other guys, he probably would've been the leading scorer on the squad, the leading rebounder. With his body, he can be a more athletic Antoine Walker. He can be an all-star for years and years. I think he will be able to come in and help right away. He's too talented not to do it."

Those familiar with Williams weren't surprised that he was willing to put the team before himself at North Carolina. As a 10-year-old playing Little League baseball, Williams went to the bench late in a game that his team eventually lost. While Williams sat, the other parents became enraged, begging the coach to put him back in the game. It was later revealed at the team banquet that Williams had pulled himself from the game when one of his teammates began crying on the bench because he didn't get to play. "That's how Marvin is, that's my Marvin," said his mother, Andrea Gittens. "He's always been like that."

Marvin Sr. recalls a time when his son asked him for some money in high school and he gave him $100. His son kept $20 and gave the rest to his mother and brother. "Some kids would've kept the money and wouldn't say nothing," he said.

Williams and his two younger brothers, Demetrius and J-Tonn, were raised by Gittens. Their parents separated when Marvin Jr. was an infant, but he stayed close to both. Marvin Sr. introduced his son to basketball in the basement of his apartment during weekend visits when his son was just 4. A native of Wallace, N.C., Marvin Sr. claims to have played pickup games against Michael Jordan, grew up a Tar Heels fan and used to show his son tapes of their games.

Marvin Sr., a former junior college player, said he dominated his son in one-on-one games until the younger Williams turned 12 and finally beat dad, 11-0. "I was the teacher. After a while I felt like the student," said Marvin Sr., who moved back to Wallace when his son attended college and will live with him during his rookie season.

In his father, Williams discovered basketball. In basketball, he discovered the means to take care of his mother. Williams said his mother was his inspiration for declaring for the draft. Gittens would wake up at 5 every morning to take a two-hour ferry ride to Seattle, where she worked as a bookkeeper. She would return every night around 8 p.m., tired and worn. Williams hated to see his mother struggle and took a job bagging groceries to help support the family.

"He worries about me more than I worry about him," said Gittens, who has also needed back surgery for about five years. "He's taken the role of, 'I'm going to take care of you, Mom.' I've taken care of my boys all by myself all this time. I guess they've seen me struggle so long. I'd be crying when I'd get home because I couldn't pay this bill or that bill. He'd say, 'Don't worry, Mom, just give me a few more years.' "

The wait is almost over. "My whole life I've looked forward to taking care of my family, and that's what I'll do," Williams said. "I'm not really a material guy. I don't need three cars and two houses. One house is fine. One car is fine. One TV is fine. I'll be fine."

The only getaway Williams afforded himself the past few months was surprising Gittens with a visit on Mother's Day. He spent his birthday -- June 19 -- working out for the Milwaukee Bucks. The self-described "boring" guy said he had nothing to do anyway, and that he was pleased when the Bucks presented him with a birthday cake. "The cake was good, too," Williams said.

Gittens has already started looking for a new spacious home in Bremerton, a seaport town she said she will never leave. But Williams doesn't know what he'll buy his father. He asked him if he wanted a new car.

"I said, I don't need all that," Marvin Sr. said. "He said, 'Me neither. I don't really like all that stuff.' "

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Diesel Grand Master

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Before Amare Stoudamire was drafted, he boasted about one day being greater than Jordan!

That's what you want.

MWill doesn't have the competitive fire to even watch the game's premiere event.

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Marvin Williams can raise his hand for all three. This is the same Williams who sported a "Lion King" backpack through four years of high school, read "Harry Potter" books on AAU basketball road trips and got downright giddy when he discovered his AAU practices were moved to the early morning and wouldn't conflict with "Rugrats."

Lion King backpack?? Harry Potter?? Rugrats??? is that supposed to be impressive? This kid scares me to death

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look bad. I am simply questioning him the most because he is our likely pick. I also havent read some of those articles you were mentioning and can only go by what I have read and that last article about him talking about already owning a Hummer made him sound like things had been handed to him. I am glad to know that he's not really that way.

A #2 pick in the draft deserves to been picked over big time because this isnt a #6 pick that should turn into a good player, this is a player that has to turn into a star player and hopefully a superstar player. If everyone just accepted Marvin and didnt question things about him like his knowledge of the NBA, his desire to learn about his new job, things like that, then we wouldnt be doing what we should be doing.

I have said a thousand times that it wouldnt break my heart for us to draft him, but when you compare the superstar qualities his and Bogut (leaving out the actual playing), Bogut has it while Marvin's is very questionable. Using Duncan as an example was a poor choice though because he is far towards the exception than the rule.

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Lascar78 Newbie

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Lion King backpack?? Harry Potter?? Rugrats??? is that supposed to be impressive? This kid scares me to death

Yeah I've got to admit that didn't exactly make my day. On sportscener the other day he was saying that the nice guy thing was overdone though. He's just a good, humble kid who's going to be a star.

At least he won't get busted for smacking his girl or having a gun or anything like that. I thought this team wanted high character guys.

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I hadnt read that other article. I am not going to bash any of these players simply to make any other player that I prefer look better. I would much rather have a guy who cares about his family and is a good citizen than a guy who just wants to get a new Hummer with spinners on it for the ladies. I am impressed by Marvin, but at the same time concerned. Does he have the fire to be a superstar, or simply a star? Can we afford to simply take a star at #2? Isnt that why we arent seriously considering taking Deron or Paul at #2, at least on this board because we think they will most likely be stars and not superstars? At #5,6, I take Marvin all day long and accept if he only becomes a star. At #2 he has to become a superstar, otherwise we wasted a chance to move down and get a star who can really help our other players get better and an additional player from trading down.

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the lion king backpack is kinda funny.. But what's wrong with Harry Potter? the books are awesome. Rugruts is a funny cartoon. I used to watch it all the time and I've got about 12 years on him.

Would you feel better if he had been reading the anarchists cookbook and happy that practice had been moved so he could watch re-runs of the Nurimburg trials on history channel?

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Diesel Grand Master

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I don't think this is the media's doing.

The other day I told you that the trait of Chris Webber was that he doesn't want the pressure. Look at him in the Sac-town/LAL series.. He never stood up and took the pressure in the 4th. Go back to UNC/Mich. He cracked like an egg hitting the pavement because of the pressure.

Well...

Marvin Williams gave up his spot on the floor so that a 13 yr old kid could play and they lost the game..

That's a wonderful story about Character....

Marvin Williams never complained about playing off the bench behind Jawad Williams.

That's a wonderful story about Character....

truth is MWill might be one of these guys who is good but NOT great because he doesn't have the fire.

For example... Reef. Reef is really good.. BUt not great. He doesn't have the passion. He takes his game to it's highest but he's never made the whole sacrifice.

Even Timmy Duncan. He gets by because of his size, but Tim and David Robinson shared in lacking Passion. It's always been somebody else that had to step up and win it for Tim/David. This year it was Ginobili/Horry. Last time, it was because they were just better than NJ.. Outclassed them. The time before, it was the combo of Robinson and Duncan plus guys like Mario Ellie..

I look and wonder why we didn't win the Olympics?

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Man...you can try and measure passion & fire all you want but nobody can really tell unless they know a guy personally. I know plenty of guys who act as if they are all heart and would do whatever to win...but that can be all talk ...smoke & mirrors...when they get an elbow shot to their rib cage.... I believe Bogut is all talk when it comes to toughness and passion...if I had played in that conference with his skill . I'd prolly be struttin' around talkin' smack too.

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