The Critics have started YAPPING, MWill got to

[sturt]

swolehawk said:

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It is the old kock against Tim Duncan argument...u have to be an ass to be a superstar

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Absopositruthfully on the nose, swolehawk.

And again, at the risk of repeatin, I say, at the risk of repeatin myself I say...

98% of NBA execs and draft prognosticators have been wrong before, but not as often as the 2% who found reasons to disagree with them.

[Lascar78]

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Less credentials than Jay Bilas, yet to hear this guy, 98% of all NBA execs were either completely clueless, or they all conspired against BK to fool him into picking MWill.

C'mon, Diesel.

This is about as meaningful to me as a Lascar diatribe about David Stern's innocence and goodness.

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well it seems we finally found something we can agree on...

[gohawks11]

they are a bunch of idiots over there. marvin has potential but he is already good enough now to be a player who drops in 15 a game.

[sturt]

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This is about as meaningful to me as a Lascar diatribe about David Stern's innocence and goodness.

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well it seems we finally found something we can agree on...

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I knew it... your posts about The Tyrant have been meaningless to you as well, eh Lascar?

[Plainview1981]

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Ignore the idiot. I tried to check him out. He normally writes about professional wrestling -

www.lethalwrestling.com.

He has no brains. Just a big mouth. He is not worth our time.

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Anybody over the age of 20 should find pro wrestling

dumb. What a joke.

[Vol4ever]

what a fool MWill could make of yours and Vinings comments. Come on Diesel this kid has the total package. In two years we will be laughing our arses off at this thread.

[TheDude]

two words: what.....crap..

so what makes this guy think he knows something that every GM with a legion of scouts doesn't know? like he just looks a the stats, watched a couple of ACC games, and he knows something the rest of the world doesn't.

[Plainview1981]

Could Marvin be the next Larry Johnson? In a fantasy

world the Hawks could have the next Larry Johnson and

Shawn Kemp at the Forwards.

[Buzzard]

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Jay Bilas had much less to critique Smoove by. Smoove was truly a shot in the dark as far as critiqueing goes.. I don't accept Bilas' commentation, however, I understand his uncertainty..

However, this writer makes a good point about MWill.. Against the good competition, where was he??? With our lack of vet leadership, how will he improve.. Lastly, when Smoove and Al realize that they are all neck and neck... Can MWill step it up and take the spot or will he do like he has always done and take the back seat???

I think we should have gotten PAUL or DWilliams.

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"I think we should have gotten PAUL or DWilliams. "

Your opinion on this is breaking news right

[Diesel]

All I'm saying is that he will have to step up!

The same was said about Josh Smith last year and J_Chill also...

There was less of a case against Josh Smith and J-Chill...

[Diesel]

No...

I made this clear the whole time.

I don't want you to think of me as a Johnny Come lately. MWill is going to have to make me believe it and at the same time Paul and DWill are going to have to falter. Because all we have done in this draft is duplicate a position that we had pretty much covered and neglected a position of need. US doing that means that we have to have a bonafide star! Don't you agree??? If he doesn't step up, I will be very very disappointed, not only in him, but also in BK for drafting him!

[chillzatl]

again, i'm playing devils advocate here. But the "coming of the bench at UNC" thing is only one example. He has a list of "things" that lead lead a logical thinker to wonder if Marvin is not the greatest of competitors.

The Tim Duncan comparison is without merit. Tim is a laid back guy, quiet and not an ass. But that's just his demeanor. Tim had a history of individual sport that shows that despite having a calm and quiet demeanor, he was a competitor from day one.

We just don't know that about Marvin, yet. All we have to go on are examples from his past that arguably point to him having less of a competitive spirit than most superstars typically would.

[Nicholasp27]

mwill isn't duplicating a position, because al isn't staying here with a 10mil/year extension, so he won't be here when we contend, thus we needed another high-quality forward, and got him in marvin

[sturt]

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again, i'm playing devils advocate here. But the "coming of the bench at UNC" thing is only one example. He has a list of "things" that lead lead a logical thinker to wonder if Marvin is not the greatest of competitors.

The Tim Duncan comparison is without merit. Tim is a laid back guy, quiet and not an ass. But that's just his demeanor. Tim had a history of individual sport that shows that despite having a calm and quiet demeanor, he was a competitor from day one.

We just don't know that about Marvin, yet. All we have to go on are examples from his past that arguably point to him having less of a competitive spirit than most superstars typically would.

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You talk, and Diesel moreso, as if when he steps on the court he's going to ask the defender for permission to shoot.

It's not like the kid has a history of not showing up when challenged and in the clutch... in fact, to the contrary, I seem to remember him hitting a fairly important shot in the NCAA Championship Game, don't I?

Look, this is just completely misdirected analysis...

The want-to-win is just about the most common personality trait (for lack of a better term) across the NBA... it's not just a "superstar" characteristic, but something that permeates to the end of the bench. Because it is so common, it's meaningless.

If you want a personality trait that is far more telling about their future success, it is this: "does the player have the inner self-confidence to be himself, or does he get caught up in how everyone else wants him to behave or wants him to do?"

The Larry Johnsons of the world have been one way... they overtly felt a constant need to prove their masculinity, paradoxically, a sign of weakness...

Meanwhile, the David Robinsons of the world have been the other way... discernably unthreatened by how other people thought they "should be."

What you've seen to-date is just a freshman on an upper-classmen-dominated team... a freshman who knew his place, and didn't feel threatened by assuming that role. None of us have even had a sustained opportunity to see how he carries himself when he's around other players of his own cohort... but I dare say we have a hint since he obviously has showed the self-assurance in the other circumstance.

[AHF]

I am glad we don't have Manu Ginobili on our team. That guy was willing to play 6th man off the bench in San Antonio knowing that he was better than the guy they were starting. He clearly must not have the killer instinct. Lets stay away from losers like that or John Havlicek (who likewise agreed to come off the bench in Boston behind less talented starters).

[chillzatl]

we all know that he will shoot, he will score he will rebound. That's what every basketball player does. Those things aren't the issue in relation to his competitiveness. It's about he might become. I expect Marvin to reach that superstar level. Anything else will be a disappointment. If he doesn't have a very very high level of competitiveness, he WILL NOT become a superstar.

the "want to win" also, is not the issue. Yah every player that plays, wants to win. But the difference between every guy in the NBA and the superstars in the NBA, or any sport for that matter, is the level of their competitiveness. Superstars want to compete and win on a level that transcends physical ability and pushes them to levels that leaves most players standing around saying "how does he do that?".

Given what we know about Marvin, it's perfectly legit to question just how deep his competitiveness goes.

[Buzzard]

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No...

I made this clear the whole time.

I don't want you to think of me as a Johnny Come lately. MWill is going to have to make me believe it and at the same time Paul and DWill are going to have to falter. Because all we have done in this draft is duplicate a position that we had pretty much covered and neglected a position of need. US doing that means that we have to have a bonafide star! Don't you agree??? If he doesn't step up, I will be very very disappointed, not only in him, but also in BK for drafting him!

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I was being sarcastic. We all know you are a one man bandwagon for any pg. Hell you wanted us to trade down to five and take Felton. Everyone here knows you have the upmost respect (hype, love, obsession, whatever) for all the top point guards.

You will only be a Johnny come lately if two things happen, well three.

1st Deron is not as good or better than Kidd and therefore does not make the hall of fame.

2nd Paul is not better than Kidd and/or Deron and does not make the hall either.

3rd Marvin blows up and blows away Odums career stats. Yes, 16pts, 8 boards, .445 fg%, .309 3pt%. Honestly I do not see this as being a problem.

Marvin should average 20 to 24pts a game for a season within Odums 6 yr time frame. Odum has never averaged 18 for a season. 8 boards I can accept as a minimum, same for fg%, but Marvin will shoot much better from three pt range. Marvin is just as much a inside threat as Odum, but what Odum lacks (accuracy) on the outside is a part of the game Marvin will blow him away at.

Odum's 4 assist a game could very well beat out Marvin (I love this part of Odums game and if Odum could average 20pts a game he would be a yearly all-star), but Marvins offense will more than make up for Odums 1 extra assist. Besides playing a good all around game, scoring is what most all-stars do best!

My prediction is a little less hyped than yours. Marvin Williams will be a all-star and if he breaks into the starting lineup early this year he could be ROY.

[sturt]

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we all know that he will shoot, he will score he will rebound. That's what every basketball player does. Those things aren't the issue in relation to his competitiveness. It's about he might become. I expect Marvin to reach that superstar level. Anything else will be a disappointment.

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No argument. You expect that of any top 3 pick in any year, and MWill is no different, especially given the talent everyone (or almost everyone) seems to agree that he has.

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If he doesn't have a very very high level of competitiveness, he WILL NOT become a superstar... But the difference between every guy in the NBA and the superstars in the NBA, or any sport for that matter, is the level of their competitiveness.

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Ahhh... the sheer will to win... sounds romantic, but... no.

No shortage of guys who are competitive.

Vast shortage of guys who have the physical talent to set themselves apart.

Overwhelming shortage of guys with the mental self-confidence to be themselves, and normally, something you don't find until a player is older.

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Superstars want to compete and win on a level that transcends physical ability and pushes them to levels that leaves most players standing around saying "how does he do that?".

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Yeah, I remember David Robinson... all kinds of physical ability, but couldn't push himself to that championship level of play for years... considered to be "too nice."

And pardon the momentary blasphemy, but arguably no one has ever had the combination of competitiveness and physical talent that our own Dominique had. In Jordan's early years, I recall the majesty of their showdowns... but what ultimately made the difference was not that Jordan "out-competitived" Nique... what made the difference was that Jordan carried himself with this glow of self-confidence, while candidly, Nique always seemed to be consumed with proving himself (which was evident in how he would try to do too much).

No, my good friend. It's not competitiveness.

It's high self-assurance/low insecurity.

It isn't loud or audacious.

It's quietly knowing you are better than your opponent, and will win no matter how much they grit their teeth and snarl.

[Diesel]

If Al got an extension, it wouldn't be close to 10 million per year... We both agree there... But I'm not so quick to say that he won't be extended.

[Diesel]

I think you have to look at more than just one instance... And with Marvin it's more than just one report about him. It's more than him taking the back seat on the bench...

It's about him off the court as well as in Big games for me.

YOU can't point to one Big game at UNC where he stepped up. You can point to the Oakland game and see that he stepped up.. But against Good teams, he didn't even keep his average (most of the time)... ADD that with all these other reports about him not watching pro ball and him giving up his spot, losing the game, so that another kid can play..

OH yes, that's heart warming.. BUt REAL superstars have a competitive drive.

About Manu...

Yeah, he played on the bench...

But check him out in this years finals.. When Tim was doing his disappearing acts, Manu took over.

Why do you think San Antonio let Jax go?? It was because Manu displayed that he could do the job and that he wanted it more.